But think of the children!

hobbsyoyo

Deity
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
26,575
There is currently $1.5 trillion in student loan debt on the books in the US, most of which is held by younger borrows. Since 2009, the amount of mortgage debt in the US grew at rate of 3.2% while student loan debt grew by 102%. It is true that mortgage debt is a far larger chunk of the pie than student loan debt (see below), however, student borrowers still have to pay housing costs on top of self-financing their educations.

620x-1.jpg


In 2004, the amount of mortgage originations by the 18-29 year old demographic was nearly twice as high as it is today (around $80 billion versus about $40), showing the negative correlation between the growth of college education costs and the ability of young people to afford homes. Not only does this represent young people having less housing options, it also means young people have less opportunities to invest and build wealth.

One of the key features of the decade leading up to the Great Recession was increasingly high levels of graft and malfeasance on the behalf of loaning institutions. Fraudulent, un-affordable or otherwise unsuitable loans fed an investor bubble which skewed housing prices and created a web of debt that hurt the global economy when it went bad. Similar patterns are repeating in the student loan market and the government's own watchdog has criticized the US Department of Education (DoE) for how badly it is mishandling student loan servicers.

These servicers regularly flaunt the rules established by the DoE and are rarely held accountable. Instead of protecting consumers, there has been a concerted effort by DoE secretary Betsy Devos and the Trump administration to roll back protections for borrowers and enhance the ability of servicers to drive up costs to both consumers and the federal government. Servicers have engaged in patterns of deceptive behavior to make it harder for students to pay back their loans and thereby increase profit margins through higher interest fees and penalties.

The DoE has to audit phone conversations between servicers and borrowers and found that in 61% of the calls they listened in on, there was evidence of failure on the part of the servicers - they gave wrong or misleading information. This problem did not start with Trump either - Obama failed to check abusive servicers as badly as Trump has. A key difference between the administrations, however, is that Trump's DoE is actively fighting the auditing agencies in court.

There are currently lawsuits against student loan servicers such as Navient and Betsy DeVos's DoE is backing servicers over borrowers by arguing nothing to see here, move along. Of course, the inspector general of the DoE itself is trying to tell Betsy DeVos that there is in fact, something to see here but there is no evidence she is listening. Things are so bad that even teacher's unions are taking Navient to court over their deceptive and abusive practices that cheat borrowers out of loan forgiveness. Out of 29,000 potentially illegible applicants, only 96 have been approved for forgiveness under a program that began under Obama.

And Betsy DeVos has even moved to stop forgiveness of loans that were proven to be fraudulent, because of course she has. And while I'm not one for conspiracy theories, I can't help but see a link between the way she runs this agency and her investments in student loan debt collection agencies.

These conflicts of interest were disclosed to Congress during her confirmation process which culminated in a dismal hearing performance where Betsy DeVos let on that she doesn't know much of anything. None of this stopped the Republicans from confirming her but that was basically a given from the outset.

FT_18.07.26_hourlyWage_adjusted.png


As if this wasn't enough, wages in the US have been stagnant for 40 years and this vicious cycle of rising costs and declining relative income has resulted in a birth rate that's lower than it's been for 30 years. And if you are a person of color in the US, your primary and secondary education may have been substandard due to a $23 billion per year funding gap between overwhelming white and non-white school districts.

Budgets are moral documents, a list of national priorities that we have decided to collectively pay for. Our moral compass needs calibration if we are electing officials who will give away $1 trillion in tax cuts while forcing young people to finance their own education to compete in a job market that's been broken by 40 years of wage suppression by the very same rich people getting the tax cut. Did I mention that Trump's Labor Department tried to pass a rule that would allow restaurants to confiscate tipped wages from employees? How much worse do things have to get before we start fighting on behalf of our own children?

It would be outrageous if it wasn't so normalized.
 
I don't mean to imply there at the end that tipped service jobs are exclusively held by the young. I am fairly certain the numbers are disproportionately skewed toward a younger demographic but I'm not certain of that.
 
Last edited:
So, just some analysis. In general 'good debt' is debt that creates an increase in productivity that's greater than the cost. It's an investment. At least, this is true at the microlevel. Conversely, 'bad debt'' fails to. (This would mean that most luxury debt is 'bad debt', but people knew that already.)

Americans have been borrowing to take on an education and total productivity is rising. But, wages haven't risen with any of this increased investment. Because universal education doesn't lead to a competitive advantage (even if it leads to a productivity advantage), the current system means that the debt might very well have been beneficial to the whole without actually benefiting the person who took on the debt. A correction is required. Someone needs a haircut. Either the owner. The worker. Or the lender. (Fun fact: One can actually be the other once an economy is imbalanced enough. Once the owner also owns the debt paper, things get systemically terrible).

Given that only one out of three of those has not actually benefited from all of this self-investment, it might tell you where the imbalance is.
 
The debt is also unique in that it is un-dischargable. Excluding extraordinary circumstances and lengthy court involvement, you cannot default on student loans in the United States. This government manipulation of the market is justified by the notion that an education can't be confiscated from an individual. It effectively penalizes people who 'picked wrong' when it came to their education or the many who did no picking of their own and instead pursued a degree their parents mandated. You could argue it provides a disincentive for those who would abuse the system but I think this is one of the worst ways to tackle potential fraud and waste as it comes with enormous unintended consequences.

Though you could also argue that trapping people with student loans was exactly the consequence that the student loan and private universities lobbied to achieve when Congress changed the rules over the last two decades.
 
Education should be baked into the national budget and should not be subject to good vs. bad debt equations. It is the state's responsibility to provide a robust infrastructure for its citizens, and access to education is a core component of that.
 
If the loan is to the federal government, then it is essentially a tax. Honestly, making the government the lender of created dollars isn't the worst. If the loan is to a bank, the protection is a subsidy to both successful students and unsuccessful lending agents
 
The debt is also unique in that it is un-dischargable. Excluding extraordinary circumstances and lengthy court involvement, you cannot default on student loans in the United States. This government manipulation of the market is justified by the notion that an education can't be confiscated from an individual. It effectively penalizes people who 'picked wrong' when it came to their education or the many who did no picking of their own and instead pursued a degree their parents mandated. You could argue it provides a disincentive for those who would abuse the system but I think this is one of the worst ways to tackle potential fraud and waste as it comes with enormous unintended consequences.

Though you could also argue that trapping people with student loans was exactly the consequence that the student loan and private universities lobbied to achieve when Congress changed the rules over the last two decades.
Also we would all declare bankruptcy upon graduation.

My "it's the system maaaan" theory a few years back was all this debt was to force graduates who spent four years learning why socialism was superior would have to enter the system and by the time they paid it off, they were thoroughly bought off.
 
I support no uni fees, yet this can lead to other issues. Eg universities have no fees here, but many are in a state of collapse.
Not that fees alone would prevent this.
I was unlucky enough to start uni (in britain) the first year a max 1000 pounds/year fee was enforced by tony blair. Now fees have more than tripled, for a ba, and are iirc almost 9000 pounds for an ma...
I recall feeling as if i wasnt a real student exactly because i had to pay 1000 p/year for the degree :)
 
In Spain public universities are copaid by students and state. Yearly fees go from 600 to 1000€ depending on the career.
 
If the Federal gov't made it very easy to get a loan and then it was very easy to declare bankruptcy ... it's essentially the same idea as just having free college tuition!

You then run into an incentive issue, because you're spending someone else's money then it's easy for there to be cost over-runs. At that level, the credit score incentive system isn't terrible. If you put students on the (future) hook for a portion of the subsidy, in the form of a loan, it means people have incentive to choose the schooling according to the best of their predictions AND schools have a price-incentive to limit costs.
 
There is a big difference between allowing bankruptcy and making it very easy.
 
I do not think that is true. I do not believe that was the case before they changed the law. Could be wrong.
Dunno when they changed the law but the super high prices of education are pretty recent.
 
I do not think that is true. I do not believe that was the case before they changed the law. Could be wrong.

I don't think federal student loans ever were dischargeable in bankruptcy, or at least not for the past few decades. Private loans were until the law was changed in (IIRC) 2005, though.

FWIW, I'll be in income-based repayment until I'm 54, barring the socialist revolution/somehow becoming rich/the abolition of this program and its replacement with lifetime enslavement under the Republican administration that makes Trump look like a liberal pansy. Provided you keep up on the paperwork, it can be thought of as simply an additional 15% income tax on earnings above 1.5x the poverty line. I don't think that's too terrible, TBH, and I think it should just become the default.
 
Last edited:
What are you suggesting as a better means of financing it? At least, taking it as given that massive college debt continues to exist - it's not written off (except at the end of income-based repayment) and nor is college made tuition-free.
 
Oh boo bloody hoo!
(a) They chose to go to institutions that charge fees,
(b) The vast majority still support and vote for parties and politicians for whom the very idea of free education is anathema.
 
Oh boo bloody hoo!
(a) They chose to go to institutions that charge fees,
(b) The vast majority still support and vote for parties and politicians for whom the very idea of free education is anathema.
A) we were raised to be kids well into 20s making giant financial decisions in our teens that is still a good idea, but one impeding other good ideas
B) do we? Does the Democratic Party? I think you’re wrong on both counts.
 
A) we were raised to be kids well into 20s making giant financial decisions in our teens that is still a good idea, but one impeding other good ideas
B) do we? Does the Democratic Party? I think you’re wrong on both counts.

(A)So what? So you chose to make giant financial decisions. You chose poorly.

(B) I agree that "free" education is now part of the Democrat's latest Party Platform. E.g.
Democrats are unified in their strong belief that every student should be able to go to college debt-free, and working families should not have to pay any tuition to go to public colleges and universities.
https://democrats.org/about/party-platform/#free-college

But that's now.

When was the last time universal free education was put to a vote in Congress and what was the result?
 
Back
Top Bottom