BYU: Honor Code More Important Than Winning NCAA Championship

[Formaldehyde]

Good thing Brandon Davies also didn't drink coffee or tea, instead of merely having intercourse with his girlfriend. They may have decided to kick him out of college instead of just off the basketball team.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/03/04/AR2011030401742.html

BYU basketball player Brandon Davies was suspended for violating the school's honor code. As Cindy Boren reported:


At other schools, Brandon Davies might have been high fived. At Brigham Young University, he was suspended from the nation's third-ranked basketball team because he admitted to violating the school's honor code by having sexual relations with his girlfriend.


An honor code is an honor code and the one at BYU, a private school affiliated with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, requires students to "live a chaste and virtuous life." Students are also required to be honest; abstain from alcoholic beverages, tobacco, tea, coffee and substance abuse; and attend church regularly. Davies will be suspended from the team for the rest of the season and, according to BYU spokeswoman Carri Jenkins, his future at the school has yet to be determined.


"Everybody who comes to BYU, every student if they're an athlete or not an athlete, they make a commitment when they come," BYU Coach Dave Rose said, adding that he thought Davies would play again for the team. "A lot of people try to judge if this is right or wrong, but it's a commitment they make. It's not about right or wrong. It's about commitment."

While many thought the penalty harsh, Tracee Hamilton explained that breaking the rules will always have consequences:


Of course, I never agreed to follow these rules, then or now. Sophomore forward Brandon Davies did, as do all students who attend BYU. Once you agree to follow the rules and you don't, you suffer the consequences. The consequences lesson is one of those important life lessons that don't appear on a college syllabus.


Davies's consequences are particularly painful, and not just for Davies: He has been kicked off the basketball team for the rest of the season - and what a season it was shaping up to be. The Cougars were ranked No. 3 in the country and in the running for a No. 1 seed in the NCAA tournament. Without Davies, they lost at home Wednesday night to unranked New Mexico, and the dream of a top seed is over.


Davies apparently violated the second rule by having premarital sex with his girlfriend, according to the Salt Lake Tribune. That falls under the "chaste and virtuous life" rule, which is sufficiently vague enough to cover a multitude of sins.

As On Faith panelist Michael Otterson observed, it is admirable that BYU stuck to its principles:


It was interesting to read about another BYU athlete's reaction to all of this. Former BYU football star Reno Mahe suffered a similar tough lesson in 1998 after an honor code violation got him dropped from the football program.


"I've always shared this with people, that it was probably one of the best things that had happened to me," he told the Deseret News in Salt Lake City. "I appreciate what BYU did to me. I appreciate the honor code and what it stands for. I appreciate that they enforce it. You get a lot of schools that say they have codes, but I don't think anyone enforces it like BYU does.... It's a great school. It's a one-of-a-kind school." As everyone knows, Reno went back to BYU and ended up playing in the NFL.


BYU is a one-of-a-kind school. But it's not the only school with principles or honor codes. And wouldn't it be a good thing if such principles and standards were so well and routinely enthroned that when they were applied in cases of honor code violations, they didn't generate coast to coast publicity.

Jon Stewart had a field day over this. The BYU part starts at 1:45 in...

Daily Show: Tales of Principled Behavior

Do you know what they call a NCAA Division 1 athlete who limits his sex to either just his girfriend or just to consent? A fictional character.

I have mixed feelings about this. I think athletes who do violate college rules should typically be suspended from their teams if those violations are important enough. OTOH I have no idea why any non-Mormon would possibly decide to attend BYU, especially such a talented basketball player as this.

 

[North King]

Props to them for enforcing their rules, unlike certain institutions. Even if the rules are utterly, utterly idiotic.

 

[sophie]

Props to them for enforcing their rules, unlike certain institutions. Even if the rules are utterly, utterly idiotic.

This. Next thread, please.

 

[Arwon]

Oh, Mormonism.

 

[downtown]

Davies IS a Mormon, btw.

I wrote a blag post about this...you can find it here:

A lot of the honor code is stupid (students are prohibited from having beards, which of course has nothing to do with Mormonism), but this is an integral part of LDS theology. The university has also consistently placed the ministry/university values over athletic competition, even though the school has a record of being pretty successful at sports. LDS church leadership actually considered ending sports at BYU in 2002, after a series of scandals rocked the football team (i'm talking actual scandals, like sexual assault).

 

[Left]

Looks like it will end well for him anyway. He got to cut down the net with the rest of the team.
The coach says he will probably be allowed back next year.

 

[Red Door]

I wish someone went to BYU and could comment on this article and whether the university is truly holding a double standard for Davies.

I think the most important point this story brings up, rather than BYU's strict honor code and how well it is followed, is why would an athlete go to BYU when you have to follow these truly ridiculous standards.

 

[downtown]

Looks like it will end well for him anyway. He got to cut down the net with the rest of the team.
The coach says he will probably be allowed back next year.

Yeah, people are rarely kicked out of BYU for honor code violations apparently (contrary to what the OP says, Davies wasn't kicked out of BYU. He's just off the basketball team).

I wish someone went to BYU and could comment on this article and whether the university is truly holding a double standard for Davies.

I think the most important point this story brings up, rather than BYU's strict honor code and how well it is followed, is why would an athlete go to BYU when you have to follow these truly ridiculous standards.

So I never went to to BYU (in large part because I didn't want to deal with the honor code), but I have several family friends who teach there, and one who used to be on the Honor Code committee. Judging from my conversations with them, I'm inclined to think that the Deadspin article is a bit of an exaggeration (and really RD, do you think Deadspin would run a story that didn't critique BYU here?).

The only difference in how this case was handled, and for a non-student, was the fanfair...and it appears that BYU wasn't the person who leaked what the guy did. When Nata (BYU's running back last season, and prob their second best player) was suspended, it just said for violating team rules. The fact that BYU was ranked so high is what caused all the journalists to be poking around.

As for why athletes go there...this is really surprising, but there ARE socially conservative athletes who think of the environment at BYU as something of a positive. BYU has close to a corner on this market, which is why they're able to punch above their weight in most sports.

 

[warpus]

1. Silly rules are silly
2. The guy knew about them when he signed up, what's the problem?

 

[Lambert Simnel]

I should note that I haven't actually gone to BYU, been a Mormon, nor had sex with a hot volleyball girl whilst at college (a shame, I know). Nonetheless, I think there are still some problems with this:

1. Is the rule reasonable? (Akin to an unreasonable contract term, this rule seems absurd and invasive. I don't believe it's any of the college's business what I do in my private life as long as it's consensual and legal)
2. Is the rule being fairly and consistently applied ? (How did the information surface - was it gained, say, from a private ecclesiastical conversation ? What happens to others caught or suspected of being caught? Are they made high profile examples of as well?)
3. Does the punishment fit the crime ? (What punishment is given out for other Honor Code infractions? If a bunch of BYU students are caught down at the local espresso bar, are they out of their chosen speciality for a year as well ? Or is consensual sex more dishonorable than coffee? (to misappropriate a Woody Allen quote, "only if it's done right..."))

One additional thought. What age was he when he signed up ? Would we ever be able to tell if signing at BYU was a genuinely free decision, made free of peer-pressure or pressure from his family or expectation from his church?

 

[North King]

How could it be unreasonable? You agree to the honor code when you enroll there. Most of the time it's advertised pretty prominently in admissions and acceptance literature. It's not exactly kept a secret from the students.

Some people want to live their lives in such a socially constricted setting. That's what BYU tries to provide.

 

[warpus]

This guy obviously didn't though. (Didn't want to live in such a socially constricted setting)

Makes you wonder how many people go there because it's a good school otherwise.. or maybe there aren't many other options in the area? Or other considerations? but don't pay attention to the honour code all too much

I mean, I went to a catholic highschool and I didn't even believe that God exists. I skipped all the "mandatory" mass sessions. A lot of people did. They mainly ended up at the school because it's a decent school overall - and their parents signed them up. Nobody was ever disciplined for not following "catholic code" or whatever.

 

[Formaldehyde]

From the articles it all appears to be quite hypocriical.

For instance, why wasn't he kicked out of school? Why aren't any of the other people who deliberately violate the policy and even mention it to school authorities?

Why are coffee and tea banned, but apparently coke or even Red Bull aren't?

 

[Zack]

Props to them for enforcing their rules, unlike certain institutions. Even if the rules are utterly, utterly idiotic.

1. Silly rules are silly
2. The guy knew about them when he signed up, what's the problem?

These.

This guy obviously didn't though. (Didn't want to live in such a socially constricted setting)

Makes you wonder how many people go there because it's a good school otherwise.. or maybe there aren't many other options in the area? Or other considerations? but don't pay attention to the honour code all too much

I mean, I went to a catholic highschool and I didn't even believe that God exists. I skipped all the "mandatory" mass sessions. A lot of people did. They mainly ended up at the school because it's a decent school overall - and their parents signed them up. Nobody was ever disciplined for not following "catholic code" or whatever.

BYU is also cheap as hell, although that only matters for regular students, it shouldn't matter for an athlete on a full-ride scholarship.

 

[downtown]

This guy obviously didn't though. (Didn't want to live in such a socially constricted setting)

Makes you wonder how many people go there because it's a good school otherwise.. or maybe there aren't many other options in the area? Or other considerations? but don't pay attention to the honour code all too much

I mean, I went to a catholic highschool and I didn't even believe that God exists. I skipped all the "mandatory" mass sessions. A lot of people did. They mainly ended up at the school because it's a decent school overall - and their parents signed them up. Nobody was ever disciplined for not following "catholic code" or whatever.

He's a talented basketball player and had scholarship offers from other schools, but he's also from Provo, and an actual Mormon. It sounds like he just had a weak moment.

 

[downtown]

For instance, why wasn't he kicked out of school?

Because dismissal from school rarely happens for honor code violations, athlete or student.

Why aren't any of the other people who deliberately violate the policy and even mention it to school authorities?

What other people? Part of the honor code asks students, professors or other employees to mention this stuff to the school. BYU suspended their running back for this last season, their best basketball player in 2001, and numerous other athletes (AND students) for honor code violations. It isn't national news because nobody cares if the RB for a 6-6 mid major football team leaves the school.

Why are coffee and tea banned, but apparently coke or even Red Bull aren't?

Because LDS theology doesn't ban the consumption of Caffeine, contrary to popular belief. It only prohibits Coffee and Tea .

 

[Formaldehyde]

He's a talented basketball player and had scholarship offers from other schools, but he's also from Provo, and an actual Mormon. It sounds like he just had a weak moment.

Sounds more like he got caught. That many athletes likely engage in sexual relationships with their girlfriends and others.

What other people?

From the article Red Door posted above:

.Anonymous BYU Alum (as told to Luke O'Brien) — The more I think about what happened to Brandon Davies, the more I think it's hypocrisy. I was listening to Jim Rome and he was praising BYU for sticking to its principles. Pat Forde on ESPN was doing the same thing. But it is a double standard. If you're a regular student and you have any sort of sexual interaction, it's private. I know one person — not an athlete — who was referred to the honor code office, and it was only because her roommate told on her. Even if you go to your bishop and announce, "I'm fooling around with a girl," it will rarely go to the honor code office. Most times, guys who are drinking, having sex, smoking pot are not going to confess it, but I have friends who talked to the bishop about that stuff — I did it, myself — and it never even wound up in the honor code office. My hunch would be that another player ratted him out. A married player.

There have been other similar reports in the media.

 

[downtown]

Sounds more like he got caught. That many athletes likely engage in sexual relationships with their girlfriends and others.

Well, he did get caught, but he also publicly owned up to it (assuming nobody got preggo, he could have denied it and likely gotten away with it), and has declared he wants to stay at the university. To me, that shows that he still intends to abide by the rules of the school (and whats required to be a Mormon in good standing).

The other stuff is really just hearsay. I don't think a lot of media members fully appreciate the type of student who goes to BYU. They really aren't your typical college kid...the school is pretty popular in large part *because* of the honor code...I know it's crazy, but a lot of people want their college environments to be like this.

Are some kids at BYU getting laid? I'm sure of it. It's a HUGE school. Is there some conspiracy to cover up offenses and single out Davies? I highly doubt it. It doesn't make sense.

From the article Red Door posted above:



There have been other similar reports in the media.

Do you know what Deadspin is Forma? It's the TMZ of sports websites. They also just published an article of several other people associated with BYU saying this guy was wrong. It's really a he said she said thing, since it isn't like records are kept (at least public ones) on this sort of thing. The reason this whole interaction wasn't private was simply because the guy was famous, not that BYU did it on purpose (they didn't leak the offense). He's right, I've known people who have gone through the exact same process, and it was private.

Based on my numerous experiences with BYU, and obviously the church, I'm not so inclined to believe this guy, although what he said is possible. Remember, a Bishop operates outside of BYU...that's the church, and hundreds of Bishops serve the BYU population. Are some more conservative than others? I'm sure of it.

 

[Formaldehyde]

I know it's crazy, but a lot of people want their college environments to be like this.

You don't have to tell me. I was making fun of Bob Jones University long before GWB's visit made it popular to do so.

All males had to travel in pairs off campus, and females had to be in groups of 5 or more. They got demerits for walking on the grass or wearing jeans anyplace but their dorm room.

We used to have Chinese fire drills at the stop light at their only gate. There was a flag pole on a concrete base with a hole in the middle. We would jump out of the car, dive through the hole, and get back into the car before the guards could respond.

Is there some conspiracy to cover up offenses and single out Davies? I highly doubt it. It doesn't make sense.

I'm not suggesting there is. I just think in this day and age that many college athletes are going to engage in sexual activities no matter where they attend school. It is like shooting fish in a barrel, especially if you are a starter.

 

[dgfred]

Never ****, ahhhhh, make that 'kiss' and tell .