Byzantine bureaucracy

[RenaissanceFan]

Although it did become messy for most countries, Byzantium was an exception; so I think the 6 cities stability penalty should at least be reduced for them.

EDIT: from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_Empire#Government_and_bureaucracy):

Despite the occasionally derogatory use of the terms "Byzantine" and "Byzantinism", the Byzantine bureaucracy had a distinct ability for reconstituting itself in accordance with the Empire's situation. The elaborate system of titulature and precedence, which gave the court prestige and influence, makes the imperial administration look like an ordered bureaucracy to modern observers. Officials were arranged in strict order around the emperor, and depended upon the imperial will for their ranks. There were also actual administrative jobs, but authority could be vested in individuals rather than offices. In the 8th and 9th centuries, civil service constituted the clearest path to aristocratic status, but, starting in the 9th century, the civil aristocracy was rivalled by an aristocracy of nobility. According to some studies of Byzantine government, 11th century politics were dominated by competition between the civil and the military aristocracy. During this period, Alexios I undertook important administrative reforms, including the creation of new courtly dignities and offices.

 

[ezzlar]

I would like that if the Byzantine UP would be "Byzantine bureaucracy" and we added the title "Emperor of Constantinopel" giving the owning civ uncollapsable status as long as they hold the city.

 

[Spirictum]

If the talk is about Byzantines, I would like to bring something from my other post in the playtest feedback thread about the UHV 3 of the Byzantines.

UHV 3: Be the richest Empire.

As I said before, there are two natural ways of beating this UHV: Control the Ottoman insurgency (and it's a lot easier now in 1.0) and use the rest of your turns to produce wealth (really easy), or even if you can't handle the Ottoman invasion but can survive until 1453, you just need to make some EP directed at the Pope to use a Spy and steal enough Gold to make him the second richest and you the richest (only one espionage mission needed).

Obviously we Imagine a prosper Byzantine Empire, that could keep or reconquer all of Anatolia at 1282 (UHV2) and did its best to make Constantinople the biggest and most cultured city in the world in 1025 (UHV1).

But why wouldn't you steal from the Pope anyways? Left alone (and he always is), the Pope has thousands of Gold at the limit year (in my current game, almost over, he has more then 5000 gold). He is always the richest, if you're not, and he sucks at espionage. And since you are the Byzantine Empire, a country that had always a big number of cities, producing a lot of EPs since the first turn of the game (and you both know each other since the beginning too), you can just put all your EPs directed at the Pope forever, if you don't mind at espionage. If you manage to survive until the limit year, you just have to make 1 to 3 Spies (to prevent catches) and send to Rome (surely by Boat if you can't reach there without entering rival territory). So where is the challenge?