Byzantine steroids c. Macedonian dynasty

Bamboozle

Professional Bowel Mover
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Does anyone else think the Byzantines should be buffed around the 950-1050s? It was the most productive time in terms of conquering for the Empire, second to Justinian's reign. This wasn't some petty territorial growth; Byzantium very nearly brought the Caliphate to its knees, but I've never seen this kind of behavior from them ingame. To quote Wikipedia:

"In 960, 27,000 oarsmen and marines were assembled to man a fleet of 308 ships carrying 50,000 troops. At the recommendation of the influential minister Joseph Bringas, Nikephoros (II Phokas) was entrusted in leading this expedition against the Saracen Emirate of Crete, and, storming Chandax after a 9-month siege, he wrested the whole island from the Muslims in 961."

"In the campaigns of 962–963 by brilliant strategy he conquered the cities of Cilicia and advanced into Syria where he captured Aleppo in collusion with his nephew John Tzimiskes, but made no permanent conquests. It was on these campaigns he earned the sobriquet "The Pale Death of the Saracens". During the capture of Aleppo, the Byzantine army took possession of 390,000 silver dinars, 2,000 camels, and 1,400 mules."

"In 972 he (Emperor John I) turned against the Abbasid Empire and its vassals, beginning with an invasion of Upper Mesopotamia. A second campaign, in 975, was aimed at Syria, where John's forces took Emesa, Baalbek, Damascus, Tiberias, Nazareth, Caesarea, Sidon, Beirut, Byblos and Tripoli, but failed to take Jerusalem."

And of course we can't forget the exploits of our resident leaderhead:

"Basil oversaw the stabilization and expansion of the Byzantine Empire's eastern frontier, and above all, the final and complete subjugation of Bulgaria, the Empire's foremost European foe, after a prolonged struggle. For this he was nicknamed by later authors as "the Bulgar-slayer" (Greek: Βουλγαροκτόνος, Boulgaroktonos), by which he is popularly known."

"Although the engagement did not end the First Bulgarian Empire, the Battle of Kleidion reduced its ability to resist Byzantine advances and can be considered the pivotal encounter of the war with Byzantium. The heirs of Samuel could not subsequently hold off the Byzantine advance, and in 1018 the Bulgarian Empire was finally destroyed by Basil II."

I'm not suggesting for a massive buff, but Byzantium always stays a weakling in my games, and I rarely see them go on the offensive against their enemies. So if there was some sort of buff granted to an NPC Byzantium, it would be historically accurate, and of course, fun.
 
I agree-- they need to be buffed around that time and nerfed around the time the Arabs enter, seeing as lately they seem to almost always hold Alexandria.
 
I have noticed that AI Byzantium is always kind of fallen behind in tech compared to others. It's the case even when they have managed to hold off the Bulgarians, Arabs and barbs. But still, like you said they very rarely go offensive. Maybe their slower tech rate is the reason?

Speaking of the tech rate of Byzantium, even a human player may struggle with it. Here I am - Byzantium/Monarch, still struggling to get Guilds in 1257:

civ4screenshot0271.jpg


This should usually be the time for Replaceable Parts already, but I don't even have Philosophy and Education yet, besides Guilds.
 
Every city above 10 gives a tech penalty. And you seem to be doing some heavy expanding?
 
Every city above 10 gives a tech penalty. And you seem to be doing some heavy expanding?

Thanks for explaining this. I was aware that large empires received a tech penalty, but I didn't know how large was "large".

About the expansion - yes, there were a lot of experienced Cataphracts who survived the Seljuk invasion and some 40+ stability. I didn't want to let these veterans to gain dust in cities and to let the good stability to go into waste, so I decided to emulate the historical Byzantine reconquest of Italy. 600 years late, but still :p Getting involved in Italy also met getting involved in Western European diplomatic intrigues. Received a DoW from Spain which ended with Spanish capitulation. Because everyone hated Byzantium, I tried to gain some favor with at least one Western European nation. The nation of choice was Germany. Shared wars against Burgundy and France turned Barbarossa from Annoyed to Pleased.

But still, I have done some heavy expansion with other nations like France, Germany and Austria as well, but the tech penalty for them didn't feel so severe as it does for the Byzantines. Gunpowder taking 10 turns in the year 1350 with the tech rate 1400 :science:/turn - haven't seen anything so severe yet.
 
The base Byzantine tech modifiers are lower, both for the human player and the AI
If you get some big penalties because of your many cities additionaly to this already slower tech rate, the sum of that is much more noticeable than for other civs like france, germany or austria.
 
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