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[NFP] Byzantium First Look

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by bite, Sep 17, 2020.

  1. ehecatzin

    ehecatzin Emperor

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    Yeah I was thinking that the early game is going to be a bit rough, as you really only have bonuses to getting an early religion, so you better choose beliefs that will help you out in kickstarting the conquering engine.

    About all the "Byz shouldn't be in the game we have Rome" "where they even Roman?" thing, honestly it doesn't matter, the devs think they deserve to be in the game, and to be separate from Rome, most likely scenario is that at one point just a different leader doesn't cut it to differentiate gameplay enough, and you have to split them into diferent civs, eg: Gorgo, Pericles, and Alexander, so to me It's just a matter of we getting diferent gameplay choices.

    I'll say this however, one thing I'd love to see is , Rome and Byz getting the complete same treatmentt, I want another leader for Rome to represent the Republic.
     
    LMT, WorldWarIV, Inawordyes and 4 others like this.
  2. Tiger Genocide

    Tiger Genocide Prince

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    Man I love the design on this civ but this power creep is out of control! For the love of Talos, please re-balance this game before you end the lifecycle of this game Firaxis!!!!
     
  3. 8housesofelixir

    8housesofelixir King

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    We might need a "dynasty" system for that.
     
  4. ehecatzin

    ehecatzin Emperor

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    I think he was ready to hate Byz from the start, he has explained as much before , to each its own I guess. But yeah, Maya are complete opposites.

    A lot of civs could use a look into them to keep them up with the newer ones, at least when gathering storm came out a lot of civs got a few synergies with disasters, Egypt being the most notable.

    Byz does kick Spain in the nuts, I get that Byz focuses on converting first conquering second, and Spain conquers first converts second, but Spain has so many more extra hoops to jump through, getting a religion, bringing religious units to sieges, coupling them with Conquistadors. I'd honestly want them to make that conquering first playstyle more rewarding, like getting you gold for each pop converted on conquest, or a free insta trade route when you conquer a capital on another continent.
     
  5. PhoenicianGold

    PhoenicianGold Emperor

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    It's a civ that is attempting a particular playstyle which is a) ultimately very narrowly constrained, b) flavorfully feels a bit non-sequiturish, like the pieces don't quite fit together logically, and c) is not only too vanilla, but also nowhere near the level of assymetric design I would be expecting from a game in its fourth year of design.

    Ugh. Byzzie fans get what they want and they are still belligerent. That's yet another reason why I just don't care for Byzantium: the demographics that a hyperreligious, hypermilitaristic empire tends to appeal to.

    I never said Byzantium was insignificant. I said it was boring.

    I have tried to be open-minded about a good Byzantium design selling the idea to me, and to be sure, this is a better attempt than V. But it's such a generic concept to begin with--occupying, at least within the mechanics of civ, design space that is hardly more developed than Rome and easily less interesting than the more stylized aesthetics of other medieval civs--that yes, I am predisposed to just not caring.

    We basically already have that with alternate leaders. Problem is that the devs don't want to flesh that out.

    Also, I really don't need or care for Roman Republic on top of three Greek leaders and Byzantium.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
  6. ZarduStar

    ZarduStar Chieftain

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    Love the synergy between religion and warfare. The hippodrome and city center look beautiful, the music is great. Basil II and his beard are badass.

    By the way, Firaxis, you do realise that by putting Basil II in the game, you are now required to include Bulgaria as well? :D
     
  7. Kupe Navigator

    Kupe Navigator Prince

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    so is every victory focused civ. How is Byzantium less interesting then say Grand Colombia or Ottoman or Aztec?
    I'll say it is more interesting than even Rome ( let's be fair Rome is... pretty weak ever since GS... Almost on the same level as England)
     
  8. Kupe Navigator

    Kupe Navigator Prince

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    wow someone hates Classical Greek/Roman period

    Moderator Action: This does not add to the discussion. Please do not troll. leif
     
  9. PhoenicianGold

    PhoenicianGold Emperor

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    You're right, it's generally a fault of many of the domination civs, which could stand to be more dimensional. I suppose I was just hoping that Gran Colombia would fill the boring domination civ slot this year and we would get something less unidimensional for Byzantium if it did happen. But apparently we might get any number of bland domination civs in the NFP model.

    Because it is done to death lol. There is an entire world of history outside of the Greco-Roman sphere, and we have plenty of it in the game already.

    Moderator Action: Please do not respond to trolls because then you become one too. leif
     
  10. Arianrhod

    Arianrhod Warlord

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    On the flip side, you need to build Holy Sites and Entertainment Complexes relatively early. I don't think this is something you'd usually want to do (aside from RV and maybe Colosseum), so the payoff kinda needs to be big. I expect they'll be excellent at RV and probably one of the best candidates for that, although they may not have the highest Faith output. I'm not super convinced about their Domination odds considering that their ability feels very "Win More" -- the amenities and combat strength are probably not going to do much good for you until you've already conquered one or two civs, and at that point you've already won regardless of your civ.

    VI usually tries to avoid repeating leaders from V. There are exceptions like Pedro and Suleiman, but on the other hand you have Elizabeth getting kicked out of the perfect attendance club. This has led to both female leaders (like Wu Zetian and Catherine) getting kicked out for dudes, and dudes (like Sejong and Orange Boy) getting kicked out for ladies. I don't really care all that much about Byzantium, personally, since I only really like Ancient civs (having bought the base game for Sumer and the expansions for Phoenicia; my current lack of NFP is very relevant), but if we have to have it I can appreciate having someone other than Theo or Justy.
     
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  11. IvoryPavane

    IvoryPavane Prince

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    Not seeing any power creep with this Civ.

    Many of the abilities hinge on a religious with only a mild bonus to obtaining one (I don’t mind this particularly, but other Civs are dragged for this reason so Byz are no exception)

    UUs seem solid, Dromon is slightly dull.

    Hippodrome is cool! But despite amenity changes, EC is still one of the weaker districts. In many cases, you are only building it for the units, especially with the Arena which isn’t a great building.

    And not to create any offence but I guarantee if this Civ had Theodora as a leader, we would be seeing a lot more “critiques.”

    but thems the breaks.
     
  12. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    Hm, just saw the video.

    What is the building in the Basil II speaking screen supposed to be? Looks generic and certainly isn't world-famous. Surely the most defining building of the Byzantine Empire is the Hagia Sophia, and that should have been there.

    2/10, wouldn't buy the game if I ever actually had meant to :p
     
  13. kryat

    kryat King

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    I think one of the reasons there seems to be power creep lately is that firaxis is leaning heavily into specialist civs. Ottomans, Maya, GC, Byzantines, Ethiopia, Mali, Hungary, Mag Catherine, etc have all seemed to be very strong because they have nice focused designs where everything synergizes into a complete package. Compare to the grab bag abilities most vanilla civs (Spain, Kongo, Rome, etc), and it’s clear the newer ones are generally geared for and stronger at 1-2 specific victories.
     
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  14. Kupe Navigator

    Kupe Navigator Prince

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    at least Byzantium is also useful for religious victory. unlike Grand Colombia. seriously if you are going to complain about Byzantium being boring then you should say that for all domination civs.
    but that doesn't make it unimportant. People talk about Greeco-Roman period a lot for a reason.
     
  15. Askia Muhammad

    Askia Muhammad Chieftain

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    Looks okay - just kind of looks like Spain on steroids with some design evolution baked in.

    Side note: I have never in my life heard Byzantium pronounced like that or heard Basil II pronounced like that. Is this just an error in my experience? Specifically when she was talking about the leaders name it sounded like Bah-zo instead of Bay-zil.
     
  16. Zaarin

    Zaarin Chief Medical Officer, DS9

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    Sarah's accent has a feature called L-vocalism where L sounds like a vowel or semivowel; it's common in certain American dialects. But yeah, her pronunciation of Byzantium is weird.
     
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  17. ehecatzin

    ehecatzin Emperor

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    I guess that applies for any warmonger civ tho, don't forget their bonuses apply to religious units, so you could pull an Aztec and once you have a nice happy empire going focus into pushing your religious units to finish off the rest.
     
  18. PhoenicianGold

    PhoenicianGold Emperor

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    Pretty sure I did complain about Gran Colombia. But the difference is that GC was a first attempt, and added some much desired cultural diversity to the roster. So while GC is disappointing, I grant it a lot more leniency because it was new and somewhat unexpected. Byzantium is just something people rotely expect because history classes obsess over them as a pinnacle of European achievement; for something that so many consider essential to the game, it should be all-around more intriguing than a mere domination-religion exchange machine.

    I never said it was unimportant. I said that it was more than adequately represented in VI and that there are plenty of other interesting, important places that could be represented as civs.
     
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  19. Jewelrunna

    Jewelrunna Prince

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    My point is that it'll be harder to beeline converting Holy Cities that are centered in empires that are spreading their religion around really effectively.

    But I guess that makes for an interesting dynamic for Byzantium. Their domination games will be better against other domination Civs, and their religious games will be better against religious Civs.
     
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  20. Kupe Navigator

    Kupe Navigator Prince

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    there is still 3 civs left... and there are civs in this pack that got the representation that never got representation in civ game before ( Grand Colombia and Gauls for example)
     

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