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[NFP] Byzantium First Look

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by bite, Sep 17, 2020.

  1. PhoenicianGold

    PhoenicianGold Emperor

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    The Gauls and Byzantium are probably the civs I wanted the least besides Babylon lol.

    The Maya so far are the most asymmetric design in the game, but what disappoints me is that a) it's not really that asymmetric, and b) the design is just flavorfully really bland and does a poor job of communicating why the asymmetry exists.

    * The Maya have no need to settle near rivers, yet there is nothing mechanically communicating why they can do that. We know it is because they had a cistern and aqueduct system, but nothing about their assets or mechanics communicates that.
    * If the Maya do have such a water system, the question is begged why can't they settle much farther than their capital? Why is their capital the limiting variable, where the Maya were a confederation and one city-state was about as politically relevant as another. They could theoretically get rainwater from anywhere, (maybe as long as they settle in rainforests?). And while we could get some sort of explanation of the capital being the source of an aqueduct system, or a saacbe improvement facilitating intercity trade, or the cities being susceptible to drought and famine, but again there is no explanation.
    * The luxury resource bonus is lazy at this point. The Cree got a Mekewap bonus for being adjacent to luxuries. Montezuma's LA provides amenities for improved luxury resources. This is the third native American civ that has luxury bonuses, it's become trite and occidentalist.

    Don't get me wrong, the Maya seem to show some potential (as does Byzantium) mechanically, but on the whole I do not find their designs as deep or resonant as the ones we got in GS or even in R&F. NFP is really demonstrating how much even dumb, shallow mechanics like Golden Ages or Casus Belli can make civs feel a lot more unique.
     
    8housesofelixir likes this.
  2. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    I think naval ranged is fine for them but maybe not two tiles, but instead they could keep it one tile like the quadrireme. To compensate it would be cool if the tile stayed on fire for a time and have fire continuing to damage units on the tile every turn.
     
    Boris Gudenuf likes this.
  3. Navelgazer

    Navelgazer King

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    I'm also considering how good Mont St. Michel could potentially be with Byzantium, though with the Hippodromes and Holy Sites (though you won't need as many of the latter, they'll probably be nice to have) crowding out space for Great Works buildings, you could easily outrun yourself. Maybe Voidsingers really do have the best synergy here.
     
    8housesofelixir likes this.
  4. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

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  5. Xandinho

    Xandinho Emperor

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    Some people saying that the Byzantines are very similar to Spain. Well, I can see some similarities there, but we are getting to the point of having almost 50 civs in the game, it is to be expected that some similarities are already appearing, and this is mainly strengthened because the NFP civs are using only mechanisms of the base game (as Spain does).
    If Byzantines could use some R&F and GS mechanisms, perhaps it could be more distinct from Spain.
     
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  6. Sostratus

    Sostratus Deity

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    Myomoto, tedhebert, Meluhhan and 8 others like this.
  7. agonistes

    agonistes wants his subs under ice!

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  8. Leucarum

    Leucarum King

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    Byzantium does feel like Science is their achilles heel. They're going to be pushed in quite a few directions. Scoring a religion and gearing up for war are both investments but they need to push up to medieval ASAP as their knights look pretty impressive...

    I wonder if they're going to have a playstyle of religion+teching to beeline knights then slamming out a bunch of hippodromes for a timing push. Then just ride the momentum to victory. Also ranged units to get those kills for conversions are going to be a crucial component so you maybe want a hyper-defensive early millitary to support your knight push?
     
  9. Leucarum

    Leucarum King

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    Also Basil is going to loooove the sight of meteors
     
  10. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

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    The Tagmas actually unlock at Divine Right, a Civic. So they won't be struggling to science up to Stirrups as much as you think. And Basil's full strength vs cities applies to all cav units, not just Tagmas. So, I could see a Chariot rush being his thing.
     
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  11. 8housesofelixir

    8housesofelixir King

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    I assume they can try to choose a science-yielding religious belief?
     
  12. 8housesofelixir

    8housesofelixir King

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    That also kind of fit, since Divine Right will unlock a military-focused Monarchy polity, which was Basil II's thing.
     
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  13. UWHabs

    UWHabs Deity

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    I feel early you're going to want to focus religion, so to me, a chariot rush doesn't make a lot of sense. I think if I were to play them, my goals would be to go religion early, going Choral Music or maybe Work Ethic as your founder belief, and then try to get the culture game going to Divine Right, at which point you go all out war for the rest of the game with Monarchy.

    One thing about that, in the traditional game Monarchy tends to be early in the era - if you were playing with the tech shuffle mode, they could be nerfed hard if that doesn't show up until a late civic or hidden behind a ton of reqs in the era. Although given AI bonuses, I feel that tech shuffle should help anyone trying to gun religion - at least if Astronomy is pushed back, it's pushed back for everyone, so you maybe have a better chance to beeline it first, especially if you can get an early natural wonder nearby to see where it stands.
     
    Eagle Pursuit likes this.
  14. KayAU

    KayAU King

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    I don't particularly enjoy warmongering or spreading my religion, so this civ was never going to be for me. That said, I think this is a pretty good design overall. I like boats, and I like range, so the boat with extra range is good. I also like the extra Great Prophet Points and the unique district. I might actually give this one a go.
     
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  15. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

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    Whoops. My avatar slipped.
     
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  16. Potworny

    Potworny Warlord

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    upload_2020-9-17_22-25-43.png
    Does that swirl count as a Firaxis logo? :p
     
    bite likes this.
  17. schondette

    schondette Chieftain

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    The civ colors and flavor are great. Cant wait to play them

    The synergy between religion and military is well done. You can weigh into whichever victory type to your taste without being forced into neither
     
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  18. Sostratus

    Sostratus Deity

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    My feelings on the actual Civ itself...

    I love the visuals and chanting. A great job there.

    I also really like both UUs.

    The Civ seems fun to play.
    My only gripe is that everything they have is oriented around heavy cav crushing things. I do sort of wish that either the Civ or Leader ability would swap the combat focus and do something more General empire builder-y, just to draw out a feeling of grand imperial might a little more.

    But I do like it and am happy it’s in the game now. The cavalry vs walls ability of Basil is unbelievably strong, guys. Converting a city essentially grants your knights six times the damage to walls. Anyone who doesn’t defend themselves religiously is going to get crushed under the hooves/treads of the Byzantine armored cavalry. Hopefully they mark the hippodrome units too so I can have the world’s most eco friendly tank divisions.
     
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  19. Bojmir

    Bojmir Chieftain

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    I'm not normally a grammar nazi but this is just a simple definition. That's not what begging the question is.
     
  20. Guandao

    Guandao Rajah of Minyue and Langkasuka

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    The design and playstyle for Byzantium isn't my cup of tea (I don't like doing domination or religious victories). But I'm looking forward to listening to the musical themes, and Basil II's dialogue.
     
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