[NFP] Byzantium Rework Brainstorming

[Hellenism Salesman]

While I love Civ 6's Byzantium (while still firmly believing they need a nerf), they don't feel very Byzantine to me in the flavor department. Their religious-conquering niche fits into the roster nicely from a gameplay perspective, but I feel like we could make their design more authentic.

While I don't have any ideas myself, I feel a reworked Byzantium (with a non-Domination focus) should have a focus on Dark Ages (or special interactions with Dark Ages), bonuses to having someone else's founded religion, as well as defense and faith. If anything, I feel the Byzantines should be the ones with the defensive, wall-based gameplay, not Georgia, considering for most of their life they were on a steady decline and fighting off outsiders.

Additionally, while I love Hungary, I feel like Basil should be the one with a focus on levied units, with the Varangian Guard being founded by him and mostly being comprised of foreigners at the time. Speaking of, can we have some mention of the interactions between Harald and Basil? All I'm saying is it would be nice to see

So, what would you do if we were to rework Byzantium? How would you change them, and what focus would they have?

 

[Zaarin]

bonuses to having someone else's founded religion

I agree with a lot of your points, but in Civ6 context Byzantium did found Eastern Orthodoxy...

So, what would you do if we were to rework Byzantium? How would you change them, and what focus would they have?

I think they should have been a turtling, cultural, religious civ--a lot like a mix of old Khmer and Georgia. As you pointed out, Byzantium was not an expansionist power but one primarily focused on delaying the inevitable; their design in Civ6 feels very uncharacteristic. TBH as-is Byzantium's current design would fit an early Arabian caliphate much better.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Ideally what I would want would be taking the civ ability and just adding it to Basil II's ability so they could get a whole separate civ ability that's not directly geared toward domination. Though the civ ability could still keep extra GPP per turn for Holy Sites because like @Zaarin said that does fit them founding Eastern Orthodoxy.

The reason is right now it makes it feel like the Basil II civ, not a Byzantium civ.
Granted, I doubt we'd get another alternate leader for them, but if modders ever wanted to create another leader it would be difficult to make a more pacifist/defensive leader with that particular civ ability.

 

[Aurelesk]

Firaxis once said:

In Civilization VI, each Civilization has two abilities. One is based on what the nation has done throughout history, and the other is tailored to what happened during that ruler’s reign.

I am not saying that it gives more sense to the Byzantine's civilization. It still not very accurate, but you could see througth another angle:

• Byzantium is depicted in the game as the birth of the Eastern Orthodoxy (+1 GPP from Holy Site), able to spread Religion througth Combat, where Holy City conversion is rewarded with better Combat and Theological capabilities. They also mastered Greek Fire and Entertainment and probably are the world producer of Horse-Chariot Racing hooligans.
• Basil II is a wall destroyer within his Eastern Orthodoxy sphere of influence.

The +3 CS from each converted Holy Cities is quite odd. Out of all Holy Cities that could be under Byzantine territory like Rome, Jerusalem or Abydos, none of them converted to their Faith. But I guess they wanted to say that the more Byzantine's Empire shrinked, the less powerful it gets? Well, this is the case for all empire...

The Dromon and the Hippodrome is a focus on the Greek Fire and how important Chariot racing was. The latter could be a wink at Justinian I. They are also quite iconic symbols of the Byzantine. In previous iteration, the Byzantine were depicted:

• Civilization III: a seafaring scientific civilization.
• Civilization IV: an imperialistic religious civilization.
• Civilization V: a cultural seafaring civilization, both friendly and highly religious, hiding their populous cities behind huge defense. Oddly, it also has a powerful cavalry unit (Cataphract) that is better at attacking cities.
• Civilization VI: a happy seafaring civilization, both hostile and highly religious, willing to steal holy cities behind huge defense. Oddly, it also has a powerful cavalry unit (Tagma) that is better at attacking cities.

I believe that Basil II's ability, the Hippodrome and the Dromon are fine, since the former only depicts himself, while the other twos are iconic to Byzantine. So: as said by @Alexander's Hetaroi: the main problem is from the Taxis ability, because it is more a Basil II's ability than a Byzantine one.

Sadly, all the turtle civilizations are supposed to be cultural in Civilization VI, for some reason, except maybe Georgia (?). But an ability focusing to "lose less when things goes bad" is not very appealing. Gaul and Vietnam managed to do made it great nonetheless. What angles the Byzantine could take to manage that?

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Sadly, all the turtle civilizations are supposed to be cultural in Civilization VI, for some reason, except maybe Georgia (?). But an ability focusing to "lose less when things goes bad" is not very appealing. Gaul and Vietnam managed to do made it great nonetheless. What angles the Byzantine could take to manage that?

Before Byzantium was revealed I did mention that maybe they could use builder charges to repair buildings/districts quicker. I feel like they did that a lot with all the riots and natural disasters that happened.

 

[Zaarin]

Sadly, all the turtle civilizations are supposed to be cultural in Civilization VI, for some reason

I think that's explained mechanically: a turtle civ is straight up not going to win a Domination victory by definition, and a Science victory might be harder with a smaller empire. The two easiest victories while turtling would then be Culture and Religion (or Diplomatic--but you can't tie into Diplomatic Victory with vanilla mechanics except perhaps by piling on the Gold).

 

[Hellenism Salesman]

Okay, while it may be encroaching on another Civ's niche, I just had a lot of fun trying to design this and I'm quite proud of it. Thought I'd share it, with the notion that this was to change Byzantium into a Civilization more along the lines of what @Zaarin: Cultural, Faith-based, and defensive.

So, I present my reworked Byzantium. Looking over the design after the fact, I'm beginning to realize it's more of a Georgia 2.0 ... but whatever! I'm going to present the full design and then do a breakdown of it, bonus by bonus.

(Looking at this after the fact, I realize that a lot of these mechanics are expansion-specific... sorry! Most of the aspects I was trying to capture were only possible using them. I've only now realized how constricting that design limitation is, considering I made these abilities without even considering NFP civs could only use vanilla mechanics.)

Basil II's Leader Ability: Varangian Guard

• +5 Combat Strength versus Free City units and Barbarians. Reconquered Free Cities gain +10 Loyalty. Receive double Gold from clearing Barbarian Camps, and Faith equal to the Gold yield. Levied units heal every turn in Byzantine territory. +5 Gold per turn per citizen in the capital.

Byzantium's Civilization Ability: Walls of Constantinople

• May purchase walls with Faith. Holy Sites gain Culture equal to their adjacency bonus, and receive a standard adjacency bonus from Hippodromes. Receive +1 Era Score for each Historic Moment if there is at least one other Civilization in a Dark Age. While in a Golden Age, generate +2 Faith per level of walls in all cities.

Unique Unit: Dromon

• Can now perform coastal raids, and no longer has a combat strength buff. Otherwise, unchanged.

Unique District: Hippodrome

• Provides an extra Amenity to its parent city, as well as +2 Culture. Receives +1 Culture for every two adjacent districts, and +1 Production when placed adjacent to a Horses resource.

Alright, onto the explanation.

"Varangian Guard"

• I wanted to focus Basil more on this aspect of his rule, along with his rebellion-stopping and aristocratic taxes.

"+5 Combat Strength versus Free City and Barbarian units. Reconquered Free Cities gain +10 Loyalty. Receive double Gold from clearing Barbarian Camps, and Faith equal to the Gold yield."

• To try and avoid an offensive direction with Byzantium (which I know, there could be better leaders for), I've put the focus on Basil's rebellion suppressions here, rather than his expansionist campaigns. Just thought it could create some more interesting abilities.
• Beyond historical context, this allows the player to not fret about their cities flipping nor keeping them once they've conquered them again. Also, I figured we needed some interesting interactions with Barbarians beyond just Gilgamesh, so I threw in that, too.

"Levied units heal every turn in Byzantine territory."

• The Varangian Guard was mostly comprised of foreigners, and there are few convenient ways to depict foreign soldiers beyond the levying system we have now. This was the best I could get.
• Once more, this is to help Byzantium with defense. They'll have a good amount of gold to spare, so they can afford to levy some units to forgive the fact they invest most of their Production into infrastructure.
• Additionally, thanks to the Walls of Constantinople ability, you'll gain extra Era Score from levying units, as long as another civ is in a Dark Age. Might help you get some extra Golden Ages.

"+5 Gold per turn per citizen in the capital."

• This is to represent Basil's taxes for the aristocracy. Once more, there isn't a convenient mechanism to convey taxes in Civ, so I just represented it the way Reyna's Tax Collector promotion does.
• This extra chunk of Gold will help the Byzantines to upkeep the maintenance cost of their districts, pay for their barbarian-hunting troops, and enlist foreigners into their Varangian Guard.

"Walls of Constantinople"

• Once more inclining towards defense and focusing on Byzantium's walls. So try and siege us, Mehmed

"May purchase walls with Faith."

• No historical significance behind it whatsoever, but it's very convenient and helps the Byzantines place their excess Faith somewhere when they're done spreading their religion. Additionally, this will prove to be a worthwhile long-term investment when a Golden Age comes around, giving you Faith back.

"Holy Sites gain Culture equal to their adjacency bonus, and receive a standard adjacency bonus from Hippodromes."

• The Byzantines were a religious empire that also developed a strong culture. This bonus helps them focus on building crucial Holy Sites to spread their religion without having to worry about investing in Theater Squares. Though, it's never a bad idea, considering you have a unique Entertainment Complex to give it extra adjacency.
• Speaking of that unique EC, the Hippodrome adjacency is just to tie together it with the rest of their new kit. Amenities are great for any Civ, and synergize very well for a warmongerer, but they aren't quite synergistic with Faith. This helps with that.

"Receive +1 Era Score for each Historic Moment if there is at least one other Civilization in a Dark Age."

• From what I've seen (and experts, please correct me on this- I'm eager to learn), despite their steady decline, the Byzantines actually held up fairly well while the rest of Europe was lost in its "dark ages." So when other Civs are struggling, Byzantium will be doing just fine. Additionally, this helps them in the Dramatic Ages mode, where Dark Ages are far more common, which was a game mode fortunately released alongside them.

"While in a Golden Age, generate +2 Faith per level of walls in all cities."

• Extra Faith gen is very helpful for a religious empire. Additionally, this Faith makes walls pay themselves off, meaning you can easily get consistent, free Faith, as long as you stay in Golden Ages consistently, which shouldn't be terribly difficult thanks to their improved Era Score.

"Dromon can now perform coastal raids."

• Under Basil II, the Byzantines are encouraged to go around the world to pick fights with barbarians. The Dromon already has increased range (and gains increased strength versus Barbs, thanks to Basil's ability), making it perfect for picking off stray coastal Barbs and emptying camps. Additionally, it can defeat the other naval units of its era without even stepping into their range, making it great at dealing with those pesky Barbarian quadriremes.
• Lastly, once that camp has been cleared, it can raid it, providing you with piles of Gold and Faith. And thanks to the high movement of naval units, it won't be long before you can get that again. Plus, the extra kills and the cleared camps allow you to earn your promotions even faster, accelerating the rate at which you can mow down Barbs.

"Provides an extra Amenity to its parent city, as well as +2 Culture."

• Unique districts need to be "better" than their original counterparts beyond just being cheaper, so I gave the Hippodrome just a single extra Amenity, rather than our current Byzantium's +2. That always seemed like a bit much to me. Additionally, the Hippodrome has a base yield of culture equal to the Arena, since it basically is just a big arena.

"Receives +1 Culture for every two adjacent districts, and +1 Production when placed adjacent to a Horses resource."

• Entertainment Complexes don't typically have adjacency bonuses, so why not give them some? Being a piece of architecture unique to the Byzantine culture, they gain Culture from adjacent districts, like the Theater Square, and Production from Horses for flavor. And being fair, if you had a giant stadium for horse races, don't you think it would be a bit more productive for you if horses were right outside?

Anyway, that's all. Had a lot of fun coming up with this... got any thoughts?

 

[Zaarin]

"Receive +1 Era Score for each Historic Moment if there is at least one other Civilization in a Dark Age."

I very much like this part as a great deal of Byzantium's glorious reputation comes from the fact that it was a shining beacon of civilization while Western Europe was falling to pieces.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Basil II's Leader Ability: Varangian Guard

• +5 Combat Strength versus Free City units and Barbarians. Reconquered Free Cities gain +10 Loyalty. Receive double Gold from clearing Barbarian Camps, and Faith equal to the Gold yield. Levied units heal every turn in Byzantine territory. +5 Gold per turn per citizen in the capital.

Honestly if you are going to give him an ability called Varangian Guard why not give him a Varangian Guard UU?
Give them one of the bonuses such as receiving a gold yield from clearing barb camps or cities.

Byzantium's Civilization Ability: Walls of Constantinople

• May purchase walls with Faith. Holy Sites gain Culture equal to their adjacency bonus, and receive a standard adjacency bonus from Hippodromes. Receive +1 Era Score for each Historic Moment if there is at least one other Civilization in a Dark Age. While in a Golden Age, generate +2 Faith per level of walls in all cities.

I agree with you that it feels like having wall bonuses that provide faith feel too similar to Georgia, and to me they aren't really needed. I like the idea of Holy Sites and Hippodromes playing off of each other and giving them culture though.