Byzantium

[Gazebo]

I agree that she needs the religion in order to make the UA function, but I hope that you aren't literally giving it to her. Example:

Turn 2: A pantheon has been founded.
Me: Screw you, India

Please oh please don't tell me I'm going to see a turn 2 religion foundation.

Eh? She can always found, but she doesn't get one instantly at any point.

 

[ircy]

I don't think he changed the Byzantiums method of getting a religion.

 

[callmewoof]

...now that she's guaranteed a faith.
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I guess I misunderstood then? If she's guaranteed, but doesn't get it instantly like India, what am I missing here?

 

[ircy]

There's a limit of 4 religions, I believe. If Byzantium is in play, and there are already 4 religions, she'll be the 5th. If she's part of the first 4, then the others are screwed. She's always guaranteed a religion, no matter how many religions are in play.

 

[Funak]

There's a limit of 4 religions, I believe. If Byzantium is in play, and there are already 4 religions, she'll be the 5th. If she's part of the first 4, then the others are screwed. She's always guaranteed a religion, no matter how many religions are in play.

Or if Byzantium is in the game the limit is changed to 3, she automatically taking the 4th one. either of those would be possible.

 

[Gazebo]

There's a limit of 4 religions, I believe. If Byzantium is in play, and there are already 4 religions, she'll be the 5th. If she's part of the first 4, then the others are screwed. She's always guaranteed a religion, no matter how many religions are in play.

This is the correct answer.
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[callmewoof]

Thank you, I see now I was confused.

 

[Prower]

Encountered a bug today playing against Byzantium. As India I selected the Desert Folklore pantheon and a few turn later Theodora picked it up as well. However when I tried to found my religion I was unable to because Desert Folklore had already been chosen. I was also unable to change it to something different so I was stuck with the game prompting me to found a religion I was unable to

 

[Gazebo]

Encountered a bug today playing against Byzantium. As India I selected the Desert Folklore pantheon and a few turn later Theodora picked it up as well. However when I tried to found my religion I was unable to because Desert Folklore had already been chosen. I was also unable to change it to something different so I was stuck with the game prompting me to found a religion I was unable to

Yeah, this was reported and fixed with the hotfix version (10.29.1) of the CP. Download that, clear cache, and you'll be good to go. Make sure to delete the LUA folder of the CP as well.

G

 

[Gokudo01]

I really like how you've changed theodora in CBP.
You solved two of her majour issues :

First, being a religious civ without any kind of natural and early faith generation, you were forced to get lucky or pick the leftover with either pantheons and/or beliefs.

Second, you couldn't use religion reactively because many beliefs were missing when you finally get your prophet. Now you can get a solid economy, even get some wonders and then use your religion to adapt.

 

[pandasnail]

Sorry for the kinda basic question, but I don't know how to quickly test it to make sure.

If I pick two founder beliefs, can I build both wonder buildings? Does it matter if someone else builds one of them? I love playing with the Caties, but I'm thinking of changing up to a new Byzie way and trying out the Golden Age combo instead of spamming Caties with either Diligence or the gold one and Orders.

 

[Gazebo]

Sorry for the kinda basic question, but I don't know how to quickly test it to make sure.

If I pick two founder beliefs, can I build both wonder buildings? Does it matter if someone else builds one of them? I love playing with the Caties, but I'm thinking of changing up to a new Byzie way and trying out the Golden Age combo instead of spamming Caties with either Diligence or the gold one and Orders.

Yes you can. They are national wonders.
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[pandasnail]

Yes you can. They are national wonders.
G

Thank you!!

I realized why I couldn't remember the name of the gold one...there is no gold one! Oops lol

 

[Charos]

I know it's been a while since we discussed Byzantium, but I play them almost exclusively so I'd like to revisit their flavor and balance.

The current UA and UB are fantastic. The flavor is great, they come online relatively late but it's a powerhouse with a lot of flexibility. I love it.

However, the Cataphract feels bland. It's okay, it just feels like there's not much reason to build them. I don't think they need a numbers buff, but could something be done to make them more unique?

 

[Funak]

I know it's been a while since we discussed Byzantium, but I play them almost exclusively so I'd like to revisit their flavor and balance.

The current UA and UB are fantastic. The flavor is great, they come online relatively late but it's a powerhouse with a lot of flexibility. I love it.

However, the Cataphract feels bland. It's okay, it just feels like there's not much reason to build them. I don't think they need a numbers buff, but could something be done to make them more unique?

I still really hate all unique units that lose all their uniqueness when upgraded, people don't seem to feel the same way however so I've stopped trying to get changes done on that front.


I'm somewhat concerned about how the UB works after the buff to regular temples, it has no base-yields, meaning that you need a city at 6 pop to break even, and while getting 6 pop isn't exactly that hard, I do feel like you're getting too little out of the building early on. I mean a unique building should feel so superamazing that you want to build it as soon as you get access to it, the Basilica doesn't right not.

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

I still really hate all unique units that lose all their uniqueness when upgraded, people don't seem to feel the same way however so I've stopped trying to get changes done on that front.


I'm somewhat concerned about how the UB works after the buff to regular temples, it has no base-yields, meaning that you need a city at 6 pop to break even, and while getting 6 pop isn't exactly that hard, I do feel like you're getting too little out of the building early on. I mean a unique building should feel so superamazing that you want to build it as soon as you get access to it, the Basilica doesn't right not.

I dislike Cataphract too for a similar reason but I also feel it doesn't fit time frame wise, it'd be better as an earlier-appearing Knight replacement.


Agreed about Basilica too, it should get +1/2 Culture per turn and it'd be fine.

 

[Funak]

I dislike Cataphract too for a similar reason but I also feel it doesn't fit time frame wise, it'd be better as an earlier-appearing Knight replacement.


Agreed about Basilica too, it should get +1/2 Culture per turn and it'd be fine.

Yeah agreed about the Cataphract, early knight or later horseman.


About the Basilica, even just adding a point or two of faith on it would make it feel strictly superior to the temple, and you would feel excited about building it.
Funniest part about the Basilica is that it doesn't require a shrine, but with how the shrines work now you would pretty much always want to build a shrine over a Basilica in a city anyways

 

[Orlanduke]

Yeah agreed about the Cataphract, early knight or later horseman.


About the Basilica, even just adding a point or two of faith on it would make it feel strictly superior to the temple, and you would feel excited about building it.
Funniest part about the Basilica is that it doesn't require a shrine, but with how the shrines work now you would pretty much always want to build a shrine over a Basilica in a city anyways

I had to take a few looks back at the UB to make sure I was reading it right. No base yields? +2 faith is my thinking, if it feels too strong with the 1/3 faith, maybe bump it down to 1/4, or 1/5 if really needed. I don't think it's all that OP though.
Was religious pressure through trade routes changed? I don't remember it being different, and I remember hating Arabia's UA since even with doubled effectiveness, it wasn't very good at all.

Regarding the UU, I like the idea that it gets defensive terrain bonuses, it just feels clumsy, like a half-mandekalu cavalry. Not even, since the penalty only lowers 8% I'm still not attacking cities with them.

 

[Funak]

Regarding the UU, I like the idea that it gets defensive terrain bonuses, it just feels clumsy, like a half-mandekalu cavalry. Not even, since the penalty only lowers 8% I'm still not attacking cities with them.

Unlike the manducav it doesn't have a kickass unique promotion that carries over when upgraded either.

 

[Charos]

I dislike Cataphract too for a similar reason but I also feel it doesn't fit time frame wise, it'd be better as an earlier-appearing Knight replacement.


Agreed about Basilica too, it should get +1/2 Culture per turn and it'd be fine.

I kind of like the Basilica. Sure, it's not immediately valuable, but it creates some truly insane faith yields late game when cities start getting to 20-30 pop. I think it's okay for UBs to have differently-shaped value curves as long as their total power is high enough to feel impactful. It's alright if the power spike isn't immediate.