Byzantium

Can anecdotally confirm Theodora's fondness for some questionable belief choices.
Regarding the TtGoG issue; as mentioned earlier Byz should be extensively tested by every (wo)man capable. Perhaps a VP challenge as her is in order? Have players play out the same start with varying strategies and post the results. :)
 
Can anecdotally confirm Theodora's fondness for some questionable belief choices.
Regarding the TtGoG issue; as mentioned earlier Byz should be extensively tested by every (wo)man capable. Perhaps a VP challenge as her is in order? Have players play out the same start with varying strategies and post the results. :)

Its already in the works. The next VP challenge is going to involve Byz
 
Yes, sorry for the long delay, I didn't expect 6-14 to stay that long (screw Gazebo's PSU!). It will be Byzantinum for sure for the next challenge.
 
Yes, sorry for the long delay, I didn't expect 6-14 to stay that long (screw Gazebo's PSU!). It will be Byzantinum for sure for the next challenge.

FWIW I got the parts in today, but with the holiday it'll be until Thursday that I'm back online. So I wouldn't expect anything until the weekend at the earliest (and that's quite optimistic).

G
 
Any previews of what's in the pipe?

My shortlist:

Code:
Github
    Merge and address outstanding issues

Aztec
    Buff Floating Gardens with GA bonuses, remove Well from build list

Byzantium
    Reduce faith on Basilica (needs testing)
  
Reformation
    TtGoG- none can be bought before industrial
    Sacred - additional buff (increased tourism bonus from routes/trade probably)
  
TR
    Scaling to be added
  
Pillage
    Formula + scaler + values (needs testing)

Promotions
   Look at naval melee
   Look at naval T4s
   Fix naval range existence
 
My shortlist
i thought the theming bonus conversation was quite productive. Had you considered any of the changes suggested there?
 
Why not reduce the tourism penalty for Wide?

It's inelegant and doesn't scale well. You'll notice I've stripped that from policies.

i thought the theming bonus conversation was quite productive. Had you considered any of the changes suggested there?

Shortlist is things I need to test/figure out solutions for on my own, not stuff that (on paper) is already designed, as your list is.


G
 
After several unfinished attempts in the past, today finally I completed a game with Theodora.

Large map, 10 civs, Epic speed, emperor difficulty. I won a CV in 1770. That was one of the easiest victories I ever had.

Extra mods: EE, 3&4th uniques, Wonders Expanded.

I started on a large continent, shared by Morocco, Mongolia, Greece. Neither of them rushed me, they quarrelled between themselves. My first policy branch was tradition. I finished Stonehenge, picked goddess of beauty as pantheon. From there I wonderspammed more and found first religion in continent.

I picked Holy Law, Council of Elders and Veneration for beliefs. Spammed missionaries to get CoE science and production yields in capital while picking policies gave good science, gold, faith. I reformed quickly with Crusader belief. For enhanced beliefs I picked zealotry and cooperation beliefs.

I managed to get Oracle in medieval era (1500 culture/science) by delaying completion till I research education. For second policy branch I picked Authority. When I was about to get Imperium policy, Greece DoWed, who already settled 3 cities next to my capital. 2 noob horseman were upgraded to cataphracts and more were faith purchased. Initially I holded their hoplite spam and then my conquest spree started. Walls do not stop cataphracts, castles merely delay them.

Every city captured yielded large gold, science, culture which pushed me in techs and policies further ahead. Marrakesh with 25 population gave something like 6k culture! When the world was around late medieval era (15th century) I have already conquered Mongolia, Greece and Morocco and vassalized them (2 cities each).

At that point I was already 2 eras ahead of closest competition (Russia). For third policy branch I picked imperialism to get more from monopolies and some 20 puppet cities. Cooperation belief + Tribute policy resulted in steady flow of science, culture, faith, gold from otherwise penalized puppets while 2 prophets assisted with missionaries did some convertion for more science and hammers on other continent.

Instead of jumping other continent, I decided to chill until I get cruisers. Well, meanwhile my cultural influenced everyone except Russia. After a few unnecessary wars (Get over with! > War) to pass time, Russia also became influenced and when I get my second 3rd tier Autocracy policy I finished CEP to claim my CV.

Note: are cataphracts better than lancers? They lose 1 mp and 5 cs but gain terrain defence bonus, %30 open terrain combat bonus, cover I. A bit too much for unit that is 1.5 era earlier.
 
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Cataphracts are very good, sometimes it hurts to miss that movement but considering how tanky they are ...
Also did you plop any holy sites?
I have a game now where I went holy law + hero worship and ... not sure if its meant but ...
I could build both the reform buildings (got one reform) and holy sites get boosted by both.
Also took cathedrals + synagoges and there is no lack of faith to purchase buildings and with monastaries from fealty (and basilicas) I will try and plop as many holy sites as I can.
 
Cataphracts are very good, sometimes it hurts to miss that movement but considering how tanky they are ...
Also did you plop any holy sites?
I have a game now where I went holy law + hero worship and ... not sure if its meant but ...
I could build both the reform buildings (got one reform) and holy sites get boosted by both.
Also took cathedrals + synagoges and there is no lack of faith to purchase buildings and with monastaries from fealty (and basilicas) I will try and plop as many holy sites as I can.

Yes I build 2 holy sites, could build more had I wanted and their yields were awesome due to 2 founder buildings. I do not know why I did not do that as I was sitting on 70k faith at the end of the game.
 
I'll post this here first instead of on Github as it may very well be intended behavior (though I hope not): when Byzantium conquers a Holy City before they found their own religion, they lose all their faith just as any other civ would and then have the religion of the conquered city. While it doesn't explicitly say it in the UA, I expected this to be different for Byzantium as it isn't bound to any of the other limitations with regards to religion, so I was expecting to still be able to found (and keep my faith) after the conquest. In my current game I can wait a few turns until I found but a new player would probably assume that he could found later anyway and not all people have their autosave interval set at 1 or 2.
Indeed it seems odd that a beneficial action (conquering a nice city) should result in such a punishment; in the case of any other civ it wouldn't be such a big deal but as Byzantium you fully expect to have maximum choice and freedom when it comes to building your religion, so to then have to take some predetermined founder and follower belief and lose the additional belief (at least for now...when enhancing it will be choosable again, I assume) is too big a downside and so sets up the incentive structure not to capture that city, at least until founding.
Consider this alternative: I found my own religion as Byzantium, but the Holy City immediately gets conquered and I can't get it back; this is actually preferable to the above situation as I can still found a new religion with all bonuses later in a different city as I understand it. So the question is: is the problem with Byzantium being treated like the others on early conquest of a foreign Holy City intended behavior?
Should I post to Github?
 
I think it's just an unintended scenario, but not a bug itself.

Byzantium could just be the exception to the conquest rule, treated as part of their UA. In other words, make the "Can always found a religion" apply even upon conquering a Holy City, with no faith loss.
 
Well an unintended, non-handled issue can qualify as a "bug" IMO, but, regardless, I agree that there should be an exception in place for Byzantium when it comes to conquering a Holy City before founding, such that, as you suggest, Byzantium doesn't lose any faith and retains the ability to found her own religion once the Great Prophet can be spawned.
 
This isn't really a balance issue, but the Basilica has some issues re: the art

First, a basilica is the basic plan for most post-nicean churches, the term is a western Roman convention, and it pre-dates Christianity as a secular building plan, basically meaning a stoa. So, historically, a "basilica" is more of a western Roman thing than a Byzantine thing.

This is made pretty clear by the choice of icon: It's St. Peter's Basilica in the Vatican (ie. inside Rome). So the icon depicts a Catholic Basilica. This also creates a problem for stuff like the More Wonders mod, who also use that same icon to depict St. Peter's as a wonder.

Why not change the Basilica name and icon to a Tetraconch? That's a specifically Orthodox/Eastern type of church building. I could make a new icon and that frees up St. Peter's Basilica to be used some place else.

Edit: to clarify, I'm not proposing any actual balance changes to Byzantium'sa unique temple replacement, just a change in its appearance in-game.
 
The Church of Saints Sergius and Bacchus in Istanbul:
Spoiler :

Shall I proceed?
 
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