Bz3 - Always War Crusade

[betazed]

After two glorious games that gave us the oppurtunity to play
and learn from each other (and thrash the AI completely)
BZ1 - Emperor Warfest and BZ2 - 5CC Overdrive I think we are up to the task for a new challenge. A ...

Always War Crusade

PTW 1.21

I will maintain who's up next etc. in this post (just like Bz2). So sign up.

To reiterate the AW rules:

You must declare war on all opponents on the turn you make contact. You may acquire tech, contacts or map information prior to declaring war, but you must pay up front: no deals involving any kind of per-turn payments. You may never, ever make peace with any opponent. Until you control all of the earth or are wiped from the earth, there will always be war without end.


Game
Difficulty - Emperor
Type - Always War
Civ - China
Terrain - Random
Barbs - None
Map Size - Continents/Large
Opponents - Random


Roster
Earp -> Playing Now
Betazed -> On The Deck
NewDestroyer
Snaproll
SAAM The Genocidal Penguin -> Playing Now

 

[Earp]

Here are some cool AW links I've been reading.

Rome Deity Always War

SG - GM-2 Masters of AWE

Epic 6 - Germany Monarch AW

Epic 14 - Greece Monarch AW

Epic 27 - China Monarch AW

 

[Snaproll]

I'm in. BZ2 was a very well-run and fast-paced game. My preferences would be

Map: Standard, although I would be ok with Large or Small. Not huge though...

Civ: I would be happy with any PTW civ except for Ottomans or Celts. I would specifically not want to be the Greeks, Aztecs, or Zulu. Other than that I'm open to suggestions.

 

[Earp]

Here are my initial thoughts on the settings.

Civ - TBD
I like the Chinese or the Germans. Both are militaristic and have good UUs(if a bit late). I like both the Industrial and Scientific traits. Scientific will be very helpful as we will have to do almost all of our research on our own.

Terrain - TBD
I would prefer continents or pangaea. Continents will slow contact between civs and prevent us from fighting lots of early wars.

Barbs - TBD
no preference. Sedentary, roaming, I don't really care.

Map Size - TBD
Standard or Large. A larger map will slow contact between civs and prevent us from fighting lots of early wars.

 

[NewDestroyer]

id love to join this, will be very intresting

 

[betazed]

IMO, Ottos and germans will be really difficult. Given their late UU's we may not last that long.

Also we should pick a miltaristic civ because you know this game will be a lot.... errr... warlike.

So I am leaning towards a Militaristic -Industrious or Militaristic-Scientific.

As for maps, I would say we for a large continents map. Pangea may be a little too tough. Although Pangea has not been tried before with AW IIRC. So we could be a trendsetter here (maybe a dead trendsetter in the long run but a trendsetter anyway )

 

[betazed]

Also since we already have 4 people I am rserving the last 2 spots for AW vets or someone with a far superior skill than ours. Hoping someone like that will join up. Zwingli, Sirp maybe. I am hoping. Nothing wrong to hope...

 

[Snaproll]

I would also prefer one of the PTw civs, only because I haven't played all of them yet.

 

[NewDestroyer]

we defintly need to be china. militiristic is a must and industrious might be the only thing to keep us in the game.

 

[betazed]

Ok, Here are all the militaristic civs.

Romans, Germans, Chinese, Japanese, Aztecs, Zulu, Mongols Vikings and Celts.

Let's go by elimination.

Civs Ruled Out

Germans - Ruled out. Very late UU.
Aztecs - Good for pointy stick in the absolutely ancient age (and I know Sirp can make very effective use of them) their religious trait is of little use to us. We will switch goverments only once to Monarchy and stay there. Plus, we really do not need the extra movement of the jag. We do not want early contacts.
Zulu, Momgols and Vikings - They are all expansionist. Definitely not the choice for an AW.
Japs - Their religious trait is of no use. But their UU is awesome. Good till rifleman and even beyond if used properly. Many of my victories have come with just the Samurai. Bz1 and TSK1 to name two in recent memory. However, industrious trait is far better than the religious trait. So ruled out in favor of chinese.
Celts - The gallic sword is a useless UU IMHO. So ruled out.

Civs not ruled out

Romans - The one Zwingli won with. Being commercial we will get the extra commerce. Important for our research. And a very good UU (same offense and defense) ideal for ancient age.

Chinese - Industrious helps and decent UU.

After some thought I think it depends on the terrain and map. If we are playing pangea then I do not think we have any choice apart from playing Romans. We will be overwhelmed in the ancient age and we need the best offense/defense unit.

If we are playing continents we may choose the Chinese. Take the entire continent of ours by the time of Chivalry (it will be tough since we will have to self-research) and then attack the other continent normally.

Thoughts? Comments?

 

[Earp]

I am also leaning towards a Militaristic/Industrious or Militaristic/Scientific. That is why I proposed China or Germany. A late UU could be a plus. Our GA will come when we are developed and get the most benefit from it.

Here are the Militaristic civs:
Aztecs Militaristic/Religious
Celts Militaristic/Religious
China Militaristic/Industrious
Germany Militaristic/Scientific
Japan Militaristic/Religious
Mongols Militaristic/Expansionist
Rome Militaristic/Commercial
Vikings Militaristic/Expansionist
Zululand Militaristic/Expansionist

I do not think we should use a PTW civ. Expansionist is definitely not good for an AW. No Mongols or Vikings. IMO, Religious is not very good for an AW. No Celts. The other PTW civs are not Militaristic. The Ottomans are a possibility (Sci/Ind), but we are just finishing up Bz2 with them. Persia is another possibility. They are not militaristic, but they have a very strong UU and Sci/Ind would be a nice combination.

I vote for China, Germany, or Persia.


Edit: betazed types faster than me.

 

[Earp]

The Germans have a late UU, but I think we could use it to get back into the game(if we are behind and everyone else doesn't have MA or hasn't launched their space ship).

 

[betazed]

Originally posted by Earp
The Germans have a late UU, but I think we could use it to get back into the game(if we are behind and everyone else doesn't have MA or hasn't launched their space ship).

Maybe.

The problem with Persian immortals is that their defense sucks. They are great till about regent or monarch level where the AI has little offensive capability. But starting with Emperor (and a Emperor AW = Deity+, IMHO) they are really overrated. Their Industrious/Sci combination is great though for any other game, but it will be unwise for a AW since we will be giving up the one trait that will benefit us throughout the game.

 

[Arathorn]

A few notes:

- AW has been done a number of times on a pangea map. Nearly all of the recent AW SG games were pangea. I don't know of any public AW 'pelago games, but I have personally won that way....
- Panzer will come too late to be a difference maker for either pangea or continents. The game will be won/lost by that point, with a 99.8% certainty. That doesn't necessarily make the Germans a bad choice, however, as the civ traits are very nice.

No, this is not a sign-up.

Arathorn

 

[Belisar]

Just a comment, experienced in my own AW games: The larger the map, the more opponents, meaning *lots* of units to fight off. A large map will be quite a challenge.

 

[NewDestroyer]

be china, industrious will help us alot more then commercial. make our cities better faster.

 

[betazed]

Ok. I am finalizing things here. I guess we have wieghed possibilities and discussed options.

Civ is China. And Maptype is continents and large (hey, we want some challenge don't we).

Civs - Random.

Barbs - No barbs. We will not be doing any exploring etc. So it doesn't make any difference.

I will be updating the first post with these settings.

If anybody has any objections now is the time to speak up (state your reasons too.)

 

[Earp]

Sounds good to me. Are we going to wait to finish Bz2 before starting this one? I highly recommend reading some of the reports from Epic 27(see link above). It was an AW using China on Monarch difficulty and gives a good idea of the challenge we have created for ourselves!

 

[betazed]

@Earp: We need not wait to finish Bz2. There is at the most one player's worth of turns left. If Tsuke does not take it just take it and finish it. (I'll be happy to finish it too, if you are swamped with other SGs).

@Others: I will not be home till late tonight. So if any one of you want to start up a game with the given conditions and post the save, feel free.

However, I agree with Earp that all of us should browse the links he has provided and get a feel for the game before we start the game.

EDIT: If anyone starts up a map before I do, please make sure that the start is at least a decent one. We do not want a start on a Tundra (this game is hard enough as it is). Anything with plains by a river should be good enough. BGs will help but not absolutely necessary.

 

[Earp]

I'll make the save file