C2C - Criminal Units

[Thunderbrd]

Yeah i dont know on the Judge either but it needs alot more, otherwise its really a useless unit.
Also i have this if needed?? Or do we have this already? I need this for a Western thing i am doing, i guess??

Looks like an advanced criminal unit, I'd suggest 'Rustler'

Oooh that's cool! Do we have a 'good' image for the Outlaw yet? Also, please keep your eye out for a Shotgunner unit art from around that era...

but we already have an Outlaw and Sharpshooter units during this period.

For reference we have ...

Police Line = Sheriff (25)
Thief Line = Sharpshooter (15)
Mounted Mercenary Line = Outlaw (29)

I suppose we could add a "Rustler" in the Infantry Mercenary Line. Thus an wild west equivalent of a Bandit Footpad.



What's wrong with the unit art we have for the Outlaw and Sharpshooter?

I haven't seen them recently. So my idea about them is probably out of date anyhow.

And I also don't see any reason for Sharpshooters to be Criminals. I realize Assassins upgrade into them, but shouldn't that be where there's a split? Assassins upgrade to EITHER Sharpshooters (and become military units rather than criminals, utilizing their skills of stealth to serve society) OR Outlaws (where they stay pretty much working on their own under some loose state guidance). If we need another CC to represent the Military Stealth units, perhaps that could be meaningful at this stage. Maybe... UNITCLASS_STRIKETEAM ?


Oh... and that unit art could be used for a Bounty Hunter, a Law Enforcement/Criminal blend unit that actively hunts down Outlaws which was the sort of thing we saw a lot of in that era (if you've seen Django, you get my drift. ) And perhaps another potential upgrade for Assassins (and Law Enforcement units of that era as well...)

Here they are. However I thought the Outlaw had a different 3D model. Doesn't look too much like a cowboy.



Its because the theif line eventually becomes snipers. Note that the snipers do not give crime like thieves do. Perhaps the Sharpshooter should not either.

Well... I realize that. My suggestion is that we allow criminals to split off there, giving them the option to become a more military functioning unit or stay as criminals. Outlaws don't go on to become sharpshooters or snipers do they? They'd become mobsters, and need some more to progress into thereafter.

ugh... hijacking poor DH's thread again. lol

@Thunderbrd

Thief/Sniper
Thief -> Rogue -> Assassin -> Sharpshooter -> Sniper -> Modern Sniper -> Hi-Tech Sniper

Mercenary Mounted/Wheeled
Bandit Rider -> Highwayman -> Outlaw -> Mobster Car

We also have the Bandit Footpad which upgrades to a musketman. And a Guerrilla that upgrades into a Modern Sniper

I think we should have a new line like this ...

Mercenary Melee/Gun
Bandit Footpad -> Rustler -> Guerrilla

Possibly having more types of units between.

I understand our current layout. What I don't like about it is that the Thief line is fated to leave the Criminal CC. I don't mind that it CAN, (in fact I like that) just have a disagreement that it MUST. Thus I would suggest that either the Assassin may continue into the Sharpshooter OR upgrade to an Outlaw and continue as a criminal, or maybe something entirely new, like perhaps:

Thief/Sniper
Thief -> Rogue -> Assassin -> Sharpshooter -> Sniper -> Modern Sniper -> Hi-Tech Sniper

OR
Thief -> Rogue -> Assassin -> Ninja -> Yakuza -> Cyber Ninja

OR
Thief -> Rogue -> Henchman -> Thug -> Strongarm -> Gangster -> Murderer


Ok, makes sense (but we need more past the Mobster Car I think... Perhaps:

Mobster Car -> Getaway Driver -> Smuggler -> ?


This line would also then suffer from evolving into military and out of Criminal unless we want the Guerrilla to continue to be a Criminal unit, which I could see it being. We would want to look at ways to continue the line though... Terrorists perhaps?

1a. Hmm. I like some of you ideas there. Note we also have some that merge into the line too such as the Ambusher, Hassassin, etc.

1b. I was going to have a Ninja as a culture unit for a Japanese dynasty culture. However I could always call it like the name of the culture Ninja.

2. Yeah they would need upgrades. I just did not figure all that out yet. Remember most of modern and after are missing units.

3. I forget if there is a limit on them. But they do produce crime. The balance part is they need crime buildings to make them and they make crime themselves. The advantage is they are generally stronger than their counterparts and do not require the resources their counterparts do. We assume they got their own weapons from the black market.

4. Which brings me to another subject. I was thinking perhaps we should have some black market buildings. Such as supplying Iron Wares or Firearms. These buildings would be extremely costly and create lots of crime, and instability. However I wonder if its not enough to basically get a free strategic resource.

What do you think?

I think if a nation CAN get wares, it usually does so. Black market is a way for civilians to get their hands on things the government doesn't want them to have. So the premise you suggest is a bit off a little but we should have something to represent the Black Market. Perhaps it would interface with the mod better once the 'Policies' project is a bit further underway.

As for the units, for the most part I was just doing some intitial naming brain storming at the same time as trying to be a bit suggestive as to what ways we could go with criminal units. I think we still have to do some more thinking as to what we'd actually want to name them and what kinds of functions they could have but my point is that the initial criminal lines should be able to continue into extended criminal lines, even if they CAN branch off into a more military function (sniping) as well.

I've really been wondering if we should have a Mercenary Combat Class as well... something a bit more Bandit-Guerrilla in feel (Militarily organized criminals as it were...)

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

FYI There is also a type of thief in Sevo's Faces of God mod

Bandits -- [Venegence Unit] The bandit is a unique unit to the Cathedral of Venegance. When a bandit leader is created he can build a depot on any available square in the empire. The depot will decrease food production. Once the depot is built, a bandit will replace the bandit leader. The bandit can move into neutral or enemy territory and sit on any improved resource he finds to steal a portion of the production. Back home, his depot plot will gain the resource as he ships it back. (In game terms, the bandit's depot plot gains the resource the bandit is on and grants the civ "access" to that resource). If the bandit is lost his depot becomes useless. If the depot is destroyed the bandit must rebuild it. A civ is limited to 3 bandits.

Also there is some need for a thief/robber unit to be available throughout the eras in a similar way to the spy unit. In fact I would move some of the spy functions onto the thief unit eg all stealing of money and plans. So perhaps the thief should upgrade to the spy not the sniper line.