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[C2C] Jaguar Among Tigers

Discussion in 'Multiplayer and LP's' started by Vokarya, Dec 20, 2012.

  1. Vokarya

    Vokarya Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2011
    Messages:
    6,159

    After I completed Ramkhamhaeng of the Incas, I said I wasn't going to start a new story for a while. However, just about as soon as I finished the story, I agreed to participate in a game under what I consider the scariest conditions imaginable.

    Not Deity Difficulty.

    Not Raging Barbarians.

    Not Ruthless AI.

    MULTIPLAYER.

    I have never played multiplayer Civilization before, and I have absolutely no idea what to expect. It should be a very interesting ride.

    For those who don't know about it, this is a game being played using the Caveman 2 Cosmos mod, an utterly vast mod that will theoretically encompass everything from the dawn of humanity (circa 50,000 BCE) to colonizing the galaxy. We're not there yet, but we're trying.

    This game is being played using the v27 release version of the mod. I don't know if we will be able to update the game to new versions, as I think Lock Modified Assets is an option that we chose to start the game, but we will find out when we release v28.

    WARNING: Updates to this story are going to be slow. We have arranged the turns so that each player will theoretically be able to play one turn every 24 hours. We haven't gotten there yet; after about a month and a half of playing, we have managed to go around 10 times. Each episode of this story will cover 10 turns of playing. After this first episode, in order to not give away too much strategic information, there will be a 10-turn embargo on future episodes. So I have just finished my 10th turn (although its turn # is actually 9, and I started with turn #0), and I will post Episode 1. I will not post Episode 2 (covering turns 10-19) until turn 29 is finished. After that, I will be able to post one new episode per 10 turns completed, but it won't be for the most recent 10 turns. So don't expect frequent updates, but I was able to stick with my first story until I finished it, and I'm hoping to do the same with this one until it either ends or utterly falls apart.

    This story is going to take the form of a "Let's Play", not a narrative. In fact, the game itself has just barely gotten off the ground. A couple special things:
    • For those who have read my previous story, I'll be pointing out things that have changed between v16 (the version I used then) and v27 (the version we're using now)
    • I will also be highlighting my own contributions to the mod. After I started the last story, I was able to join the modding team that makes C2C. I've added many new Wonders (some of which are only skeletons waiting for the core game to be modified to support the XML tags that I want) along with a few units and buildings, and I've contributed quite a bit to the Tech Tree as well.
    There is a tracker thread available where we post when we've completed a turn and it's ready for the next player. You can also vote on who you think will win the game.

    So, on to the game.
     
  2. Vokarya

    Vokarya Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2011
    Messages:
    6,159
    This game is an 11-player play-by-email game of C2C. After we voted on the options to use, this is what we wound up with:

    Main Settings:
    • World Type: Perfect Mongoose -Start in Old World
    • World Size: Huge
    • Climate: Temperate
    • Sea Level: Normal
    • Starting Era: Prehistoric
    • Difficulty: Noble
    • Speed: Epic

    Minor Settings:
    • City Flipping After Conquest
    • Unrestricted Leaders
    • No Tech Brokering
    • Start As Minors
    • Multiple Production
    • Multiple Research
    • Usable Mountains
    • Surround and Destroy
    • Advanced Diplomacy
    • Unlimited Wonders
    • Barbarian Generals
    • Assimilation
    • Great Commanders
    • Advanced Economy
    • Realistic Culture Spread
    • Realistic Corporations
    • United Nations
    • Advanced Espionage
    • Modern Corporations
    • Advanced Nukes
    • Divine Prophets
    • Mastery Victory is on

    BUG Settings:
    • Terrain Damage
    • Archery Bombard
    • Storms
    • Multiple Religion Spread
    • Opportunity Fire
    • Influence Driven War
    • Religious Decay
    • Detailed Rev Index Values
    • Sea Tunnels
    • Ranged Bombardment
    • Spy Promotions

    A couple of these are going to change how I play; I generally do not play with Unlimited Wonders or Divine Prophets. I also don't play with Archery Bombard, which is going to make a big difference on combat. Archery Bombard used to be horribly bugged, but I think it's been fixed.
     
  3. Vokarya

    Vokarya Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2011
    Messages:
    6,159
    This is what I see when I fire up the save game for the first time.

    Spoiler :


    I have drawn Smoke Jaguar. Smoke... on the Jaguar...

    Spoiler :


    Smoke Jaguar is Aggressive, Industrious, and a Hunter-Gatherer.

    Spoiler :


    We've changed traits around somewhat in C2C. Aggressive is still worth its free Combat I promotion for Melee, Gunpowder, Hi-Tech, and Assault Mech units, and it offers production bonuses for many buildings (not just Barracks and Drydock). It also has a +15% Great General emergence, +15% civic upkeep (which is actually less than other traits) and cities with crime rates over 150 generate 30 crime per turn; that little gray icon is actually a pair of handcuffs, and it represents Crime. I'm going to have to keep a very tight rein on crime or it will get out of control. 250 crime is where I start to get worried; with some work, it's possible to keep crime in the negative.

    Industrious is now weighted more towards the beginning of the game than the end. It offers +35% Wonder production and +60-100% production of various buildings: +60% to Workhouse and +100% to Forge, Glassmith, Guild Hall, Stoneworker's Hut, Townclock and the Clockpunk buildings of Automation Clock, Clockwork Workshop, and Step Reckoner Manufactory. By the time I reach Industrialism or so, there won't be any buildings available for Industrious to affect, only Wonders. We will see what the final effect turns out to be; hammers that aren't needed in the future don't matter.

    Hunter-Gatherer is a mixed positive/negative trait. The negatives are +15% civic upkeep, -20% Culture, and -80 food from Trade Routes (although I'm not exactly sure what this actually means. I have a feeling it's actually -80 PERCENT food.) On the other hand, Hunter-Gatherer grants +1 food only any plot with 7 or more food. I far, far prefer farms to cottages, and this only helps me out there.

    Thanks to the Unrestricted Leaders option, I am the Viking civilization. Your civilization choice is almost meaningless in C2C, however. There are no Unique Units in C2C, and the only Unique Buildings are the Homeland Cultures, of which there are six: African, American, Asian, European, Middle Eastern, and Oceanian.

    Homeland Cultures determine which Culture buildings you can build. A Culture (X) is a World Wonder; it generally grants you the ability to build a Culture Unit (mostly equivalent to a vanilla Unique Unit) and often allows one or two Hero units (we incorporated the Hero concept from World of Legends).

    I think the European homeland culture is the best, because it offers a lot of Hero units when the cultures become available. The only problem is the European cultures take some time to appear; American and African cultures are weighted towards the Prehistoric and Ancient Eras, Oceanian cultures are mostly Prehistoric, Middle Eastern cultures are almost all Ancient, Asian cultures are a mix of Ancient, Classical, and Medieval, and European cultures break heavily towards the Ancient and Medieval Eras. There are also a lot of "colonial" American cultures that require a specific European culture to build. Having the European homeland lets you lock down the required Culture resources first, and then you can get the American homeland culture another way.

    The starting location. The advisor is recommending I move one tile north, but I'm considering settling in place. I see from the starting players list that two other players (the Gothic Empire and the Lyran Commonwealth) have settled in place, while 4 players (the Hydron Empire, the Holy Empire of Britannia, the Vorlon Empire, and AstralPhaser's Empire) have played a turn without settling.

    Also, we are playing with Start as Minors, so while everyone has contact with every other player, all players are at war and no one can conduct diplomacy. A civilization comes out of minor status once it researches Writing.

    Spoiler :


    I actually start with 2 units in addition to my starting Band of Homo Sapiens Sapiens. One is a Stone Thrower; this is an early precursor to the Archer. The other is a Clubman. This is equivalent to BTS's Warrior, but it has an extra bonus against Melee units, so it is effectively a precursor Axeman. I'm fairly sure the extra Clubman is a bonus from Start as Minors. I move both units southeast to scout.

    Moving both units southeast reveals that there is some pretty good land for a future city to the south. I spot a Tribal Village, which will be visited soon, and I can just make out a River south of it. I think that a good second city will be just south of the river, although the edge of the fog of war looks like it may be Rocky or Barren terrain.

    Spoiler :


    As it is, the starting square looks really good. I decide to settle on it.

    My theme for this game will be the Elements. I name my first city Whirlwind.

    Spoiler :


    I then choose an appropriate leader name and civilization description.

    Spoiler :


    In the current version of C2C, new players start with an additional unit in their capital; the Tribal Guardian. This is a fairly powerful unit with base Strength 2 and +200% city defense. This prevents players from being wiped out too quickly. Tribal Guardians used to start with move 0, but that caused a lot of problems. I think that the Tribal Guardian is defense enough for the moment and I will use my other two units to scout.

    Spoiler :


    I have three main choices for what to build. I can build a Brute, which functions as a even weaker Clubman. I can build another Stone Thrower, which, as I've said, is a weak Archer. I can build Native Culture (European), which spreads the European Culture to every city. I decide to go with the third.

    Spoiler :


    I can choose two technologies at the start of the game: Nomadic Lifestyle and Language. Nomadic Lifestyle allows me a Wanderer unit. Language offers a +1 happiness bonus and the Native Language civic that grants +5% culture and science. I ran some experiments and found out that Civ rounds down when calculating fractions of a beaker, so I decide that for the moment, the Nomadic Lifestyle tech is the better choice.

    Spoiler :


    Spoiler :


    I end the first turn, and Housing (Homeless) builds itself in Whirlwind.

    Spoiler :


    Housing is a changed mechanic since v16. New Houses automatically build themselves when the conditions are met. Without any other possibilities, Whirlwind winds up with Housing (Homeless), which inflicts -1 happiness and -1 health until I can build something better. (It used to be much, much worse.)
    ------------------------
    Turn 1:
    My city has its job, so I order my units. The Stone Thrower moves northeast to climb a hill, and the Clubman moves south, skirting the Tribal Village.

    I give my units their orders.

    Spoiler :


    This is what they see. Turns out it wasn't a river, just the edge of hilly terrain. I'm still going to scout southward for a possible new city site.

    Spoiler :


    Apparently, at the end of my turn, I get partial credit for my hammers and beakers. The Wanderer unit (available at Nomadic Lifestyle) appears in my city screen, but I can't add it to my build queue yet.

    Spoiler :

    ------------------------
    Turn 2:
    I get Nomadic Lifestyle.

    Spoiler :


    For those civilizations who are not American, the really useful thing unlocked here is the Wanderer. This is an early Scout unit. (For American civilizations, the Culture [Sioux] that is available here can be devastating. Culture [Sioux] allows training Dog Soldiers, which I used for a fantastic early rush in my last C2C Let's Play.)

    Spoiler :


    My personal first commandment of the Prehistoric Age: THOU SHALT BUILD ONE, AND ONLY ONE, WANDERER.

    Wanderers are good at two things:
    • Wanderers explore tribal villages.
    • Wanderers die.

    The unit strength curve of C2C is much steeper than it is in BTS. For example, Archers are Strength 5, Swordsmen are 10, Musketmen are 20, and it keeps going up. Even Animals can have strengths anywhere between 1 and 5. Wanderers with 1 Strength, even with +100% vs. Wild Animals, die very quickly. I build one of them for visiting any initial tribal villages I spot, and then hold off on building others until I can build Scouts and Hunters instead.

    I pick Gathering as my next tech. This will reveal most of the Plant resources around me. I don't really need Cave Dwelling or Language yet.

    Spoiler :


    Whirlwind queues up a Wanderer after its European Culture is complete. I also decide to micromanage a little bit by shifting the city's one worked tile from the Grassland to the Forest. The starting unhealth eats up all my food so I won't grow anytime soon, so the extra hammer from the Forest is quite beneficial. I want to get the Culture going first, so I leave that in the top spot.

    Spoiler :


    I order my units to continue moving the same way they did before; the Stone Thrower goes northeast and the Clubman goes south.

    Spoiler :


    This is how things look at the end of turn 2.

    Spoiler :


    I'm now out of images for this post (I like lots of images when starting out) so I'll have to create a few sub-posts for the rest of this episode.
     
  4. Vokarya

    Vokarya Deity

    Joined:
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    Turn 3:

    Nothing to do on the city front for now. I order my units. I'm sending the Clubman southwest because I intend my Wanderer to go southeast and explore that area.

    Spoiler :


    This is what I discover.

    Spoiler :


    There are four interesting things about this screenshot. First is the tribal village west of the Clubmen, across the water. This will make an extra target for the Wanderer to visit. Second is that said Tribal Village is on a peninsula, so I won't be needing to expand in that direction. Third is that the Clubmen also spy water to the southeast, just beyond the Forest and Marsh Hill tiles. All told, I think I have at least a frontier here, or at least an excellent choke point.

    The reason for the chokepoint is that that square using Oil graphics is actually a Tar Pit. Tar Pits are impassable terrain. The squares south of it are Dunes squares, and thanks to some of the options we have selected, it causes damage to units on them.

    In retrospect, I now realize that I should have settled Whirlwind 1 square north, because it would have left room for another city on the tile 1 square north of where the Clubmen are now. But what's done is done. I could settle the hill tile just south of the eastern Tribal Village.

    The fourth interesting thing is that the Stone Throwers have also hit ocean. This means that my starting continent may not be all that large after all. I'm making a change to my plans and am going to turn my units to circle the perimeter of this area counterclockwise, hoping to see just how far it goes, while the Wanderer visits the two Tribal Villages and then fills in any black spaces.
    ------------------------
    Turn 4:
    My Native Culture (European) is finished, so Whirlwind starts on a Wanderer to pop the goody huts. Apparently, I'm one of the few players that prefers to wait and get them with a Recon unit to avoid bad results.
    I start this turn by ordering my Stone Thrower northwest, starting a counterclockwise wheel around Whirlwind. It finds another small river and the coastline continuing. Without any kind of naval unit in the immediate future, I don't feel that seeing Ocean squares right now is very valuable. I want to get the lay of the land first, and figure out my next good city sites and avenues of attack.

    Spoiler :


    Meanwhile, the Clubman moves southeast to follow the coast. It sees that there is some land beyond the dunes and that the water I spied seems to be more of a bay than the ocean. I have a feeling that the coastline is going to go east, not northeast as I originally thought. I can keep the Clubman moving on the southeast side, and the Wanderer will join it exploring the northeast after getting the goody huts. I intend to have the Stone Thrower explore the northwest, then return to Whirlwind and fortify.

    Spoiler :


    I finish the turn, and the partial processing of the completed tech reveals that there are two plant resources just outside of Whirlwind, and will be in range once the city's borders start increasing. The northern resource looks like Corn. The southern resource looks to be Pistachio.

    Corn could give me Hopi culture or Manchurian culture. I would need Culture (American) to get Hopi, and Culture (Asian) to get Manchurian. Pistachio doesn't give any cultures.

    Spoiler :

    ------------------------
    Turn 5:
    Gathering technology gives every player a free Gatherer on researching it. The first player to research it gets a second free Gatherer.

    Spoiler :


    The Gatherer unit is the primary benefit from Gathering. This is a Prehistoric precursor to the Worker. One drawback to the Gatherer is that most Gatherer missions consume the Gatherer, so you have to build a new one for each resource you want to access. I try not to build too many Gatherers, and I almost always use them only for Resources and the basic Trail Path to hook them up.

    Spoiler :


    I am not the first to Gathering, so I only get one Gatherer. The two resources outside of Whirlwind's initial ring are definitely Corn and Pistachio.

    Spoiler :


    I move my Stone Thrower northwest to follow the coast. It spots another Tribal Village, but also comes face to face with a Moa. Moas are very powerful animals (Strength 4) and I think my Stone Thrower is probably doomed.

    Spoiler :


    The Clubman heads northeast to top the nearby hill. It will travel east, along the edge of the dunes.

    Then I need to pick another technology to research. All of the techs I can research will take 2 turns, so I decide to go for Scavenging. Scavenging will show me all the nearby Animal resources.

    Spoiler :


    My Wanderer should be ready to start moving at the start of turn 9. I decide to mark the three Tribal Villages in the order of visiting them. Unfortunately, there's a bug that causes these labels to be wiped out when I save the game, but I can take screenshots with them.

    Spoiler :

    ------------------------
    Turn 6:
    I had forgotten about Noble difficulty's 2 free wins against Barbarians. My Stone Thrower kills the Moa and sends its carcass back to Whirlwind. I was hoping for a Subdued Moa, but I wasn't that lucky.

    I do benefit in that my Stone Thrower gets a free promotion to Combat I. This is instead of any XP from the fight, so the promotion does not count against the unit's level.

    I decide to park my Stone Thrower on the Forest Hills to the south, to let it heal up. The Forest Hills provides the best possible defense (+75%) while it recovers.

    Spoiler :


    The Clubman continues southeast and spies another River. This may be a good place to consider for future growth.

    Spoiler :


    Getting to Scavenging reveals most (but not all) animal resources on the map. I spot two Bison resources and a Horse resource. The Bison resource would be phenomenally useful if I was an American civilization, as it is the key to Sioux culture and the very strong Dog Soldier unit. Since I am a European civilization, it isn't quite so valuable. In the Medieval Era, Bison will unlock Polish culture at Heraldry. This is good for two Polish Hero units and the Winged Cavalry (a Knight equivalent with +50% attack against Catapult and Trebuchet).

    The Horse resource is far more valuable. First of all, it's much harder to build mounted units in C2C. You have to have more than just Horses in your civilization; you have to have Horse in your city vicinity to build Horse Farm, which then allows you to build Horse Trainer, which then allows you to train mounted units. (There are a few other ways to get a Horse Trainer, but this is the most straightforward.) Secondly, Horse is the key resource for Hun culture, which offers Tarkan units (a Horse Archer replacement with +1 movement point and the Looter promotion). The required tech is Animal Riding (I prefer just calling it Riding), which is available in the very late Prehistoric Era. It's not attractive enough to get off the Sedentary Lifestyle path for, but I will try and pick it up when I get more advanced.

    Spoiler :


    I didn't realize until this turn that you can show the resource bubbles for newly-revealed resources.
    ------------------------
    Turn 7:
    I finish Scavenging tech. Since I didn't go for Language, this offers my first civic choice: Banditry (a military option). I'm not going to switch civics yet, as I really don't want to waste a turn in Anarchy.

    Spoiler :


    Scavenging also reveals several animal resources, which I've already pointed out.

    Since the cheapest tech available at this point is Language, I decide to go for that next. I will need Language to start the path to hunting, which is the primary activity of the Prehistoric Era.

    Spoiler :


    I send the Clubman east to continue exploring, and the Stone Thrower stays in place to heal.

    Spoiler :


    Whirlwind finishes the Wanderer unit and starts on a Stick Gatherer. I really try to prioritize hammers in the early game, as food production doesn't mean a lot when you are several negative food in the hole. The Wanderer will be ready to move next turn.

    Spoiler :

    ------------------------
    Turn 8:
    With the Wanderer finished, I set him to explore the nearest Tribal Village. I waited this long because I didn't want to risk an early bad result. It's more important for me to "not lose" at this point in the game.

    Spoiler :


    The Wanderer nets me 119 gold, as the Stone Thrower heals.

    Spoiler :


    The Clubman continues exploring southeast and hits Ocean. My initial continent is looking much smaller than I originally expected. I may have to take to the seas quicker than I thought. But isn't that what Vikings do?

    Spoiler :


    So the goals for the moment are clear; the Stone Thrower is going to continue healing, the Clubman is going to continue exploring to the east, and the Wanderer is going to hit the western Tribal Village before heading northeast to the third Village. Anything beyond the desert to the south is going to have to wait, although it looks like tundra, which isn't much better than desert.

    Spoiler :


    Still 1 turn left in this episode.
     
  5. Vokarya

    Vokarya Deity

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    Turn 9:
    I reach technology #4: Language. There are a couple minor bonuses here: +1 happiness and the Native Language civic. I still don't want to waste turns in Anarchy just yet.

    Spoiler :


    I have a bunch of choices available to research. I choose to research Cooperation. I'm aiming towards Persistence Hunting, which is where I can really start hunting animals.

    Spoiler :


    I pass up the revolution choice as I let my Stone Thrower heal some more.

    Spoiler :


    My Clubman turns north, up the coast.

    Spoiler :


    And my Wanderer continues its trek through the forests towards Tribal Village #2.

    Spoiler :


    I spy a Platypus hanging around my cultural borders. I will hunt it down once my Wanderer is done visiting Tribal Villages.

    Spoiler :


    So here is how things look at the end of the first 10 turns.

    Spoiler :


    Taking stock, here's what I have:
    Cities: 1 (Whirlwind)
    Buildings: 1 (Native Culture [European] x1)
    Wonders: 0
    Units: 5 (Tribal Guardian x1, Clubman x1, Stone Thrower x1, Wanderer x1, Gatherer x1)
    Technologies: 4 (Gathering, Language, Nomadic Lifestyle, Scavenging)

    Score: 5 points
     
  6. Tomorrow's Dawn

    Tomorrow's Dawn Heroes Never Die

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    Interesting, Vorkaya. I never mentioned this, as I lurked your previous story, but it was the reason I downloaded C2C to try out for myself.
    Don't let the lack of comments dissuade you from continuing this by the way, it's just a little dead around here these days.
     
  7. Mallow456

    Mallow456 Chieftain

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    C2C is a good mod, and having an AAR of it in multiplayer is even more interesting. If only BTS wasn't broken on my computer... Anyway, good luck!
     
  8. Koshling

    Koshling Vorlon

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  9. Alex Costa

    Alex Costa Warlord

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    Nice to see another C2C story. Anyway I will be sure to follow. Looks like you got a sort of semi-isolated start which is good when you start off as Minor. The fact you got Horses and Bison nearby offers some possibilities for getting some Cultures later. And the food resources at the start are good as well. Anyways I do agree on you with the Wanderers. That is why I also usually save my Tribal Villages for them to pop or for my cities.

    Edit: Well Koshling it appears you neighbor one of the players in this case the English player should be fun to watch some early Prehistoric battles.
     
  10. Ellestar

    Ellestar Prince

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    Russian Federation, Moscow
    As i understand, -80 food from trade routes from trait is the same bonus as, say, +40 food from civic. So basically that means that you you're very unlikely to get any food from trade routes, IIRC it doesn't add up to more than 80 food from civics.

    And yes, it's a percent bonus, default trade route yield is multiplied by that percent. So a trade route with Yield 10 and +40 food and +0 commerce from trade routes will give 4 food and 10 commerce.


    If you're lucky to have Rabbits African is quite imba. 15 extra hunter units with strength 4 is huge if you're on a big continent.

    They also spawn animals that can be captured and can make a herd, very important as well. So it's nice to have some resources nearby, but not in the capital itself.
     
  11. Mega Nix

    Mega Nix Warlord

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    nice AAR, I can see lot of thinking have been made to be 100% productive
     
  12. strijder20

    strijder20 Wallowing in irony

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    In Dystopia
    Great to see you back with another story :goodjob:
     
  13. Vokarya

    Vokarya Deity

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    If you're thinking of Cree Tracker, it's actually American, not African. They are very good for the Prehistoric Era, especially since they don't need a Master Hunter. I requested that a ForceObsoleteTech was added so that they do eventually disappear from the city build lists (they now disappear at Feudalism).

    Herds are pretty important, although the big question is whether or not I get a Master Hunter; the Herd vs. Master Hunter dilemma can be nasty. Getting to the Master Hunter can be such a dice-roll that I created the Chaser specifically to help. I think we'll be seeing some of them soon.
     
  14. Alex Costa

    Alex Costa Warlord

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    I usually go for Master Hunter first and then the Herds. Though I always like the Myths in fact some times I choose the religion go mostly on factors of what myths I have or resources.
     
  15. Daedwartin

    Daedwartin Emperor

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    This will be interesting. Who you facing?
     
  16. SouthernKing

    SouthernKing crickety cricket

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    Deva Loka
  17. christos200

    christos200 Never tell me the odds

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    subbed.
     
  18. mykeedee

    mykeedee Warlord

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    Wow, when you said slow you weren't kidding. Subbed.
     
  19. Vokarya

    Vokarya Deity

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    Agreed, but it's not my fault. Some people are going absent for several days at a time.
     
  20. Tigranes

    Tigranes Armenian

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    Can you please comment why was Moa even included as a threat to humans? It was a herbivore hunted down by Maori. If anything, Haast's Eagle was accused in attaking and killing humans, not that poor strength 4 Big Birdie...
     

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