C3C Editor?

[C. Bob]

Greetings,
I got my copy of Civilization III: Complete yesterday. Naturally, this was an exciting thing.
I've played this for two days-counting today-and while the game works fine, for the most part, I have one minor question.

Is there an editor of any kind for Civ3 available in this package? I haven't been able to find a separate application for it-as I saw in a copy of the original Civ3 for Windows-and it doesn't seem that there's any form of scenario/map editor within the actual game.

-Bob

 

[AlanH]

No, the only scenario editor that exists for Mac OS X is the old Civ3 version 1.21g one released by MacSoft. Look around this forum for threads relating to it - some of them go back a long way. The scenarios you can build with it are limited to the capabilities of the version 1.21g game - no fixed start points for instance. You can open the scenarios it builds in version 1.29b2, but I have no ideal whether you can open them in PtW or Conquests.

 

[Beamup]

There is none. There will be none.

 

[AlanH]

There is none. There will be none.

Never say 'never'.

 

[jazzxs]

The thing is that is the one feature that helps makes Civ what it is. Its avalible for PC why not include it? I'll stay with my old Civ III. Hopefully they dont forget it on Civ IV.
Heck Id pay money just for a good editor.

 

[AlanH]

The editor is almost totally a GUI development, so you can't easily port the Windows code. It's a big job, and I can understand why Aspyr thought it was better use of Brad's time to get on with Civ4 rather than build a new editor that will only sell a few more copies of Civ3 Complete. I know it's a bitter pill, but they have shareholders to feed

 

[Gatekeeper]

I don't care about the lack of a C3C editor so long as there's an editor for Civ IV.

 

[iamliberal]

I just got my Civ3 Complete yesterday, woo hoo! I looked for the editor and did not find one. Thanks for confirming it guys.

I hope there is one in Civ4, but I'll take whatever I can get.

 

[ejday]

No, the only scenario editor that exists for Mac OS X is the old Civ3 version 1.21g one released by MacSoft. Look around this forum for threads relating to it - some of them go back a long way. The scenarios you can build with it are limited to the capabilities of the version 1.21g game - no fixed start points for instance. You can open the scenarios it builds in version 1.29b2, but I have no ideal whether you can open them in PtW or Conquests.

So far, best I can tell, it does work for vanilla Civ games -- as long as you don't mess with anything more than the map. I tried messing with the nationalities as a stress test and it failed...

 

[ancestral]

I don't care about the lack of a C3C editor so long as there's an editor for Civ IV.

As I recall, the editor is practically built-in to Civ 4 (the map editor, anyway).

However, most of the scenario files are in XML and Python, which are pretty darn platform independent, which means good news for people like you and me.

In fact, there's nothing stopping those without Civ IV from downloading a Civ IV mod for the basis of creating your own. The resources are out there...

 

[Brad Oliver]

As I recall, the editor is practically built-in to Civ 4 (the map editor, anyway).

This is my understanding as well. I messed around with it a tiny bit on my PC, and if I understand correctly, most everything you need is supplied either as part of the game application itself or can be edited with third-party tools that are already available. If I'm mistaken, someone please correct me.

 

[AlanH]

Here's my understanding of the editing options for Civ4:

Level 1: WorldBuilder comes as part of the Civ4 application - you have to set the "No cheat" game option flag in version 1.52 to disable its use during a game. It allows you to tinker with the map and the resource distributions and add or subtract units, buildings etc. to create custom maps and scenarios using the box-standard units and civs and so on.

At the next level of complexity the definitions of a lot of the scenario parameters such as units, improvements, civics, techs, civs, text captions ..... are in XML data files that can be edited using a text editor. If you want custom unit graphics you need to create .dds image files, which can be done on a Mac using Graphic Converter.

Above that you can program a lot of the user interface by modding the Python scripts. Again, all you need is a text editor.

At the top end of the spectrum there will be an SDK, not yet released, which will allow you to re-program the game software to change the behaviour of the AI, and just about any game logic. Just what this looks like, and whether it will be available for the Mac, remains to be seen. As it has to modify the actual game engine, I imagine it will need to include, or interface with, a compiler/IDE of some kind - maybe Xcode if it reaches the Mac?

 

[ejday]

Here's my understanding of the editing options for Civ4:

Level 1: WorldBuilder comes as part of the Civ4 application - you have to set the "No cheat" game option flag in version 1.52 to disable its use during a game. It allows you to tinker with the map and the resource distributions and add or subtract units, buildings etc. to create custom maps and scenarios using the box-standard units and civs and so on.

Okay, this is cool. This is 51% of the battle on tweaking to taste.

At the next level of complexity the definitions of a lot of the scenario parameters such as units, improvements, civics, techs, civs, text captions ..... are in XML data files that can be edited using a text editor. If you want custom unit graphics you need to create .dds image files, which can be done on a Mac using Graphic Converter.

This is pretty cool, too. Not as elegantly integrated as Civ3, but still quite reasonable. This is 48% of the battle...

Above that you can program a lot of the user interface by modding the Python scripts. Again, all you need is a text editor.

Wow. Modding interface. Total conversion sort of thing? Turning C-IV into a space game (the next iteration of Pax Imperia?). .5% of the battle...? For the average guy?

At the top end of the spectrum there will be an SDK, not yet released, which will allow you to re-program the game software to change the behaviour of the AI, and just about any game logic. Just what this looks like, and whether it will be available for the Mac, remains to be seen. As it has to modify the actual game engine, I imagine it will need to include, or interface with, a compiler/IDE of some kind - maybe Xcode if it reaches the Mac?

The last .5% of the battle? I'm not sure this was moddable before so it'll be interesting to see where this goes.

Either way, as excited as I am to be playing the "new" Civ3, the potential of C-IV has got me drooling like a mutt in Pavlov's lab.

 

[AlanH]

This is pretty cool, too. Not as elegantly integrated as Civ3, but still quite reasonable. This is 48% of the battle...

I'm not sure about the integration being below the standard of Civ3. You always had to edit text files in Civ3 to add your new creations as well as entering them in the scenario and ensuring the cross-references were correct. Now you'll do all the editing in one XML file, instead of in two or three, each wth different editing syles.

 

[ejday]

I'm not sure about the integration being below the standard of Civ3. You always had to edit text files in Civ3 to add your new creations as well as entering them in the scenario and ensuring the cross-references were correct. Now you'll do all the editing in one XML file, instead of in two or three, each wth different editing syles.

Yeah... Strangely, I hadn't thought of that. There was fixing Civpedia.ini, etc. So, potentially, the same level of coordination... or will it, in fact, be better than Civ3? Will all of the value changes/description be handled in one XML file?

 

[AlanH]

Dunno, but it ought to be. Check out some of the mods in the Civ4 C&C forum to see how many files are involved in adding one unit.

 

[Gatekeeper]

The editing options for Civ IV sound great; frankly, having that ability to play "god," so to speak, is what's kept the series fresh for me over the years. Odds are, I'd never use anything more than WorldBuilder and the editing level above that but, heck, the more's the merrier!

Gatekeeper

 

[Brad Oliver]

At the top end of the spectrum there will be an SDK, not yet released, which will allow you to re-program the game software to change the behaviour of the AI, and just about any game logic. Just what this looks like, and whether it will be available for the Mac, remains to be seen. As it has to modify the actual game engine, I imagine it will need to include, or interface with, a compiler/IDE of some kind - maybe Xcode if it reaches the Mac?

I suspect the SDK will consist of C++ source files and a Visual Studio project file that lets you build and/or replace the core game DLL. It should not be a big deal for the Mac if this is the case - this is how a lot of the Quake 3-based games work for custom mods. Enterprising individuals may in fact be able to take the raw PC code, fashion an Xcode project out of it and build DLLs on the Mac without our releasing a Mac-specific SDK, but I suspect most casual hackers will need us to Mac-ify it.

 

[Blue Monkey]

Never say 'never'.

Why didn't the insiders tell us! I was looking through the Manual pdf, and look what i found in the index:

Create customized scenarios, 34
Create new maps, 34

Yes, It's really there.

skip over to page 34 & I'm sure you'll be as delighted as I was.

 

[Brad Oliver]

Why didn't the insiders tell us! I was looking through the Manual pdf, and look what i found in the index:

Create customized scenarios, 34
Create new maps, 34

Believe it or not, I don't have a manual, so can you tell me what it says?