California School Bans American Flag?

[Formaldehyde]

Your quote does not in any way address whether the students have been allowed to wear shirt depicting the American flag every other day of the school year. And for the record, wearing a shirt depicting the american flag cannot ever be considered taunting while worn in America. If others take offense at it, that's their issue. Maybe the school should have sent home anyone they felt would have a problem seeing this country's flag in... you know... this country.

What utter nonsense. They were clearly trying to provoke a reaction from the Mexican-Americans because they were so bigoted they resented them even celebrating Cinco de Mayo Day.

I suggest you read what was occurring before jumping to such absurd conclusions.

Personal query. Did you get beat up by jocks in high school?

Personal query: Did you act in a bigoted manner towards people from other ethnic groups in high school, as these handful of jocks were clearly doing? Did you tolerate a few of the more bigoted high school jocks picking on other kids, as they invariably do without adequate supervision at all times?

 

[JollyRoger]

I wouldn't call it un-American, just unnecessary and stupid. In fact, I'd say suing seems to be VERY American. That's probably due to the excessive preponderance of lawyers, of course. They have to justify their existence!

Better call Joll!

 

[bhsup]

How could you provoke a reaction simply by showing an image of the American flag? In America? If someone is offended by seeing that, the issue is 100% with them. I could see your point if they chose to wear French flags as Cinco de Mayo is a celebration of Mexican forces over French forces, and not in any way related to the USA, but a US flag? No, if someone has a problem with that, they should be the ones to be dealt with.

Query response: I was voted friendliest guy in my class. I got along with everybody. The jocks, the nerds, the hippies, the Pat Benatar clones, you name it.

 

[JollyRoger]

I thought you were voted most likely to secede.

 

[MilesGregarius]

The provocation is in the intent, not in the image itself. I doubt that the school administration felt compelled to take action because a few students were simply wearing clothing with American flags on it. The flag-bearing clothing was probably part of a pattern of obnoxiousness, meant to provoke.

Simply living in a place represented by a symbol does not in any way prevent said symbol being used maliciously.

 

[bhsup]

I am so misunderstood! Supporting the right to secede does not mean I want to secede.

 

[woody60707]

If violence was a concern, then why wouldn't the school ban Cinco de Mayo Day?

 

[warpus]

How could you provoke a reaction simply by showing an image of the American flag? In America? If someone is offended by seeing that, the issue is 100% with them.

Well, yeah, but if you have idiots that get offended by the American flag on this very particular day, and you know this and wear an American flag on this very day.. then you are clearly trying to provoke them.

If it was some guy who wears the same goddamn American flag tshirt every day, then that'd be different. These guys were clearly looking to provoke the Mexican-Americans and get a rise out of them - something the school was right to clamp down on.

Idiocy from both sides, really..

 

[Formaldehyde]

Simply living in a place represented by a symbol does not in any way prevent said symbol being used maliciously.

Gee, has that ever happened before?

If violence was a concern, then why wouldn't the school ban Cinco de Mayo Day?

Yeah. Who do they think they are being proud of their own heritage, and openly celebrating it once a year, when there were a handful of bigots who were so offended by it?

Well, yeah, but if you have idiots that get offended by the American flag on this very particular day, and you know this and wear an American flag on this very day.. then you are clearly trying to provoke them.

I think you are missing the point. It isn't that they were offended by a flag that was likely in every single classroom, and quite possibly even worn by other students who had no animosity towards them. They were offended that it was being used to promote bigotry and hatred towards their ethnic group.

 

[woody60707]

On Cinco de Mayo Day, do they take down all the American flags in the school as well?

Yeah. Who do they think they are being proud of their own heritage when there are bigots who are so offended by it?

I fail to see how that can't work both ways?

 

[Formaldehyde]

I know.

But do you have any proof at all that any of the Mexican-American students at this school were acting in a bigoted manner towards American holidays and traditions? So how is it possibly working both ways?

Would you feel the same way if these bigots vandalized a menorah during Hanukkah?

 

[woody60707]

I know.

But do you have any proof at all that the Mexican-American students at this school were acting in a bigoted manner towards American holidays and traditions?

The school said the reason was violence. I know I would be outraged if a student wearing a pro gay marriage shirt got sent home. And no, the schools logic of "we were worried the kid might get beat" would not make it ok. The school should make sure the kid isn't bullied!

This just sounds like someone agreed with group A, so they then banned group B.

Would you feel the same way if these bigots vandalized a menorah during Hanukkah?

I thought it was people celebrating Cinco de Mayo Day that the school was worried that the violence would come from... So are you now saying they would ban Cinco de Mayo Day?

 

[Formaldehyde]

Are you claiming that the school was responding to threats by members of the Mexican-American student body that there would be violence if any bigots showed up on Cinco de Mayo wearing American flag shirts? Or did I misunderstand what you were trying to state?

 

[Hygro]

How could you provoke a reaction simply by showing an image of the American flag? In America? If someone is offended by seeing that, the issue is 100% with them. I could see your point if they chose to wear French flags as Cinco de Mayo is a celebration of Mexican forces over French forces, and not in any way related to the USA, but a US flag? No, if someone has a problem with that, they should be the ones to be dealt with.

Query response: I was voted friendliest guy in my class. I got along with everybody. The jocks, the nerds, the hippies, the Pat Benatar clones, you name it.

Naw, because you can tell when someone's being a jerk. It's especially offensive when they use something universal and inclusionary as the American flag as a small minded tool to make other kids feel unwelcome. They are also saying that they believe America is small and weak and needs to assert itself in their lame teenage way.

Quite frankly I'm offended that these kids think they can sully our flag that way.

 

[warpus]

I think you are missing the point. It isn't that they were offended by a flag that was likely in every single classroom, and quite possibly even worn by other students who had no animosity towards them. They were offended that it was being used to promote bigotry and hatred towards their ethnic group.

I don't see what you're disagreeing with here. My point was that the tshirt in question was worn with the express intent to get a rise out of a group of people. That's why the school seems to have acted the way they did.

Maybe you're disagreeing that I called them idiots for being offended?

 

[Kyriakos]

Not being allowed to wear a t-shirt with your country's own flag is more than just ludicrous. It is quite ugly, in my view.

 

[Lord Baal]

Let's all take a step back and focus on what actually happened here, instead of this "are you suggesting" crap.

It was Cinco de Mayo. Being Australian, I know this is some Mexican holiday that happens on 5 May every year. That's about it.

Some students showed up dressed in t-shirts with the American flag.

They were asked to leave or remove their shirts.

Now, most of the people that seem to have a problem with the school's actions are focusing solely on those three points. What happens when a little context is added?

Some students showed up wearing American flag-shirts on a Mexican holiday with the express intent of causing problems with the Mexican students. In order to prevent violence from occurring, these students were asked to remove their shirts or leave the school.

That is an entirely different issue. It does not even matter who the violence was coming from in that case; teachers have a duty of care which requires them to take measures to prevent an outbreak of violence. The flag-shirted youths lost the right to wear those shirts when wearing them became an incitement to violence.

Now, admittedly, I do not known the veracity of the article I read concerning this. It could be that these kids were not being tools and attempting to offend the Mexican students. Even so, the mere fact that the wearing of the shirts was likely to lead to violence gives the teacher, or assistant principle as it appears to be, the right to ask them to leave or remove their shirts.

 

[Yeekim]

I think this is one of those things where they may have genuinely been an issue, but the punitive and reactionary measures used to deal with it just made it all worse. For instance if some kids wanted to wear an American flag on Cinco de Mayo just to be crass and offensive, yes that is something to deal with. But just banning it and disciplining them would likely only make those kids (and their parents!) even more vociferous with their chest-puffing pro-America stuff. If some kids were just kidding around and didn't want to do anything other than just be mean, maybe it pushes them over the line into true-believer territory. "See? We are losing this country!" It lends unfortunate heft to whatever jingoism and xenophobia may motivate this sort of stuff.

I agree schools have the right to strictly regulate clothing and so on but I am just saying ideally, there might be more of a component for dialogue. That's my hopeless liberal rant anyway.

Completely agreed.

How could you provoke a reaction simply by showing an image of the American flag? In America? If someone is offended by seeing that, the issue is 100% with them. I could see your point if they chose to wear French flags as Cinco de Mayo is a celebration of Mexican forces over French forces, and not in any way related to the USA, but a US flag? No, if someone has a problem with that, they should be the ones to be dealt with.

Also agreed.

They were clearly trying to provoke a reaction from the Mexican-Americans because they were so bigoted they resented them even celebrating Cinco de Mayo Day.

So maybe they were. Still, the response was wrong due to what illram said above. The school should've encouraged the Mexican kids to wear US colors alongside Mexican ones, to rightfully ridicule and downplay this jingoism, instead of "lending heft to it", as illram rightly said.

 

[Kyriakos]

^The Mexican/other students should not be offended by the flag of the nation which they are now part of, or in other cases hosted by, regardless of what specific individuals think or supposedly think of the US flag as a symbol of putting down Mexico or whatever.
Moreover, i do not see why anyone has the right to commit "violence", as you put it, just because someone was wearing a US flag-shirt in some Mexican holiday in the US.

 

[Hygro]

^The Mexican/other students should not be offended by the flag of the nation which they are now part of, or in other cases hosted by, regardless of what specific individuals think or supposedly think of the US flag as a symbol of putting down Mexico or whatever.
Moreover, i do not see why anyone has the right to commit "violence", as you put it, just because someone was wearing a US flag-shirt in some Mexican holiday in the US.

They weren't offended by the flag being worn on that day. They are offended that kids are wearing that flag to tell them that their heritage isn't welcome in the very country they call home.

That's super racist.


Now the kids doing it might not understand that, so they might not be motivated by what they think is racism, but that's the ultimate message in the end. And they have every right to feel distressed. And for clarification, no one is taking the position anyone has the right to violence. So we don't need to discuss that unless someone explicitly does say they have the right to violence (cheers).