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California's Water Crisis

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Arwon, Mar 23, 2015.

  1. Arwon

    Arwon

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    Wait. California and Arizona don't have water use restrictions in times of drought?

    Moderator Action: This was split off from the "Clown Car" thread
     
  2. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Quad B

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    In California and Arizona there is no such thing as "times of drought". It is a freakin' desert. Any time is a time of drought. Some times are just a little harsher than most times, and this happens to be one of those times.
     
  3. FriendlyFire

    FriendlyFire Codex WMDicanious

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    Because regulation would be national socialism and Hitler.
    So instead California has this.

     
  4. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Quad B

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    The problem with that being that California produces something like 40% of the food produced in the US, so if farmers continue selling water rather than using it (which is good free market economics) there will be serious consequences.
     
  5. onejayhawk

    onejayhawk Afflicted with reason

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    This should be a different thread.

    Farmers selling water has been going on in Colorado for decades. Water rights are frequently worth more than the land they are attached to. Taking them would be expensive, even in California terms.

    Why is that a problem? It is also not accurate. 40% of certain foods, perhaps.

    J
     
  6. Arwon

    Arwon

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    I've got a feeling there are drought and non drought times in the Rockies.
     
  7. onejayhawk

    onejayhawk Afflicted with reason

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    Not really. Mostly it's all desert.

    By the standard of, say, Illinois, the drought has been going on for 10,000 years.

    J
     
  8. Arwon

    Arwon

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  9. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Quad B

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    The Rockies aren't in California. Arizona a little bit, though even the southern Rockies are basically high altitude desert.

    J...

    Certain foods, like fruit, vegetables, little things like that are over fifty percent. Dairy is around 40%. So is meat. Admittedly, grains aren't strongly represented in California, but of the food that should be on your plate a solid forty percent comes from California...and if farmers in California move away from producing there are going to be consequences.
     
  10. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Quad B

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    Yeah...it's just that the problem is that 'drought' is not really the issue. Far to much consumption for the climate, drought or not drought, is the issue. And it isn't going away.
     
  11. Hygro

    Hygro soundcloud.com/hygro/

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    we should really be cutting down on cow products. I've definitely cut back. I drink 5% the milk from a year ago, eat about 15% the cheese, and maybe 20% the beef.

    Beef is sooo bad for the environment. Mass consumption of processed dairy too. I just wonder if basic dairy consumption is okay. Need to do more research.
     
  12. FriendlyFire

    FriendlyFire Codex WMDicanious

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    What problem ? 50% of all food in America is currently wasted.
    That and the US can stand to lose some weight. :mischief:
     
  13. Owen Glyndwr

    Owen Glyndwr La Femme Moderne

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    a) We do. The statewide restrictions are crazy lax, but the municipal restrictions are much stricter for the most part. For example in Santa Cruz every property has a usage quota, and you get fines each month if you go over that quota.

    b) The problem is not residential use. The problem is farmers using water-heavy crops like almods, alfalfa, and rice, and being exempted from any water saving laws. The alfalfa they grow? That's put on a boat and shipped to China to feed cattle. That's right. In the midst of the largest drought this state has ever witnessed, we are literally exporting water to China

    Southern California is a desert. The Bay Area is a Mediterranean climate. If you saw the Santa Clara Valley right now you wouldn't say it's a desert.
     
  14. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I never yielded

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    Whenever I played Civ 4 on an Earth map, my Los Angeles area city never could quite grow to the size I expected it to, given the size of real-world LA...there was just too much desert around it:sad:... But now Civ 5 lets you ship food in from everywhere else so now I can grow a realistically proportioned LA by sucking the live out of everywhere around it!:goodjob:

    Anyway... 40% of food comes from California?? :eek: Why? Seems dumb:think: I just assumed it was Kansas, Nebraska and Wyoming producing most of the food...

    Is it just the weather (year round sunshine and warm temps?:confused:)?
     
  15. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy The trees are actually quite lovely.

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    That's because the shipping to China is free. It's far more efficient to ship crops back across the pacific than a few miles down the road.
     
  16. Owen Glyndwr

    Owen Glyndwr La Femme Moderne

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    Yes, but California shouldn't be growing alfalfa in the first place. We're in a freaking drought! The problem is that the market won't adjust to shifting water availability because the large farming interests in California have had their parcels grandfathered into the system and so are mostly exempt from any kind of water usage restrictions or graduated water prices. Municipalities can pass all the laws they want about shower length and lawn watering and car washing, but it's not going to make a damn difference unless the large farming conglomerates get broken up. We're still going to run out of water in just a couple years here.
     
  17. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I never yielded

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    Then you will all be forced to move out and they can change the name of the state to Monsanto:p
     
  18. Owen Glyndwr

    Owen Glyndwr La Femme Moderne

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    Naw, if we'd just cut out LA we'd be mostly fine. The Bay is starving itself to support its natural enemy. What sense is that?
     
  19. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy The trees are actually quite lovely.

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    Which is what I've been saying, but given that of all the possible cash returns these farming operations are looking at, they still have the highest profit margin growing alfalfa(which is really only one of the problems, just a flashy one because Shipping Water To China?! al la The Moon is a Harsh Mistress)? It means water is drastically underpriced. If they would get a better return doing something different with it, they would. China is outbidding Californians for the water.
     
  20. Owen Glyndwr

    Owen Glyndwr La Femme Moderne

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    As I said, the problem is that a lot of these farm parcels had private agreements they made with various counties and municipalities a century ago regarding their water allocation. Those agreements have been grandfathered into the system and so, even though these farmers should have been priced out of growing things like almonds and alfalfa and cotton and rice (yes, RICE), they haven't been, and there's effectively nothing these municipalities can do about it, even though their constituents next door are dying of thirst and doing everything possible to save every drop.

    Also if you're buying bottled water (which you shouldn't; what the [copulation] is wrong with you?) you are, in all likelihood directly contributing to our drought.
     

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