Calling all Civ Fanatics debaters

[Richard Cribb]

Anyone else noticed that the quality of discussion here is much higher than on other sites? Most other popular forums and commenting threads I've come across are dominated by "im boooooooorrred LOLZ!!!" type posts or, if the topic is at all controverisial, argument-less foaming-at-the-mouth rants. Here, there is a crazily high level of general knowledge and people seem able to disagree while remaining constructive and civil. I seriously don't know of any other forum where people with such a diverse range of opinions talk about such a wide range of things to such a high level.

This leads me to find it sad that the ultimate destiny of all these highbrow discussions is to sink to the bottom of the thread list and from there to oblivion. A community like this has the potential to be a wikipedia of discussions, somewhere you can either look into an existing discussion or start a new one and get a range of informed, intelligent responses back.

The only thing stopping it from becoming that, in my opinion, is the disorganization engendered by today's web forum designs. Whenever I come across a big discussion that started a while ago I just can't be bothered to trawl through the pages and pages of posts to understand everything that is being said. What I would love is some way of quickly getting the gist of what's being said and how all the posts relate to one another - something that makes forum discussions as easy and quick to navigate as Wikipedia articles. This would not only make it easier for latecomers to engage with the discussion but would also transform the discussion into a permanent, accessible resource, in the same way that wikis are.

The reason I bring all this up is because I'd love such a Wikipedia of discussions myself and over the past several months I've been working with a few other people to actually make it happen; we've developed a new kind of forum which keeps things organised and quick to navigate. In a few weeks we'll be inviting people to the private beta version and I was wondering if any of you lot would be interested in taking a look, saying what you think and, if you like it, pioneering the community.

So, anyone interested? Agree that more could be made of the discussions here?

I haven't noticed anything extraordinary with this forum, which may very well be an age-related issue.
That said, your project is one that seems to have merit and I might be interested in looking into it, so do send me a PM.

 

[Fr8monkey]

One of the other sites I have frequented (a site dealing with a certain WWII submarine game) has turned into a flame fest for the Anti-Obama crowd. All you got was yelled down and flamed if you had a valad debate. I kind of quit visiting for that reason. I like it here. We need a virtual bar to compliment the discussions here.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

But beware:

 

[Fr8monkey]

WOOHOO!!!! First round is on me!

PS. How do you get new smilies put in here, Valka?

 

[a_propagandist]

Bump and interested.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

WOOHOO!!!! First round is on me!

PS. How do you get new smilies put in here, Valka?

The same way you post any other image. Except the ones I've used are hotlinked because the smiley artist from whose site I got them requires that (she doesn't want them hosted on sites like Imageshack or Photobucket). If you look back at my post and hit "quote", you'll see the links I used. Not sure you'd be able to go to that page yourself, though; some of Millan's content requires a paid membership to access.

To actually get new smileys added to the list of clickables here, though, you need to go to Site Feedback, find the Smiley thread, and beg/plead/grovel and try your darndest to convince Thunderfall that we really, really REALLY NEED whatever smiley you have in mind...

 

[lumpthing]

Bobbtjoe, Richard Cribb and a_propagandist: Thanks for your interest, I'll get back to you.

For me as a woman it's boring to read all the political fuss going in there, but other topics make up for it.

Hmm, I don't think women are intrinsically uninterested in politics!

 

[lumpthing]

One of the other sites I have frequented (a site dealing with a certain WWII submarine game) has turned into a flame fest for the Anti-Obama crowd. All you got was yelled down and flamed if you had a valad debate. I kind of quit visiting for that reason. I like it here. We need a virtual bar to compliment the discussions here.

That's exactly it (well, one of the 'its' anyway). I think there are too many places on the Internet where people with near-identical views sit and confirm each other's point of view. It's understandable because not many people like to be constantly defending themselves or be constantly offended by views they find obnoxious, but I don't think it's great for genuine, fair debate or for a society which relies on a degree of consensus and mutual understanding in order to move forward.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I come here for the same reasons others have mentioned - there are lots of really intelligent, constructive thinking people who can argue in civilized manner For me as a woman it's boring to read all the political fuss going in there, but other topics make up for it.

Well, if you're trying to avoid politics, this isn't the place to do that - sooner or later, EVERYTHING in OT gets political!

And I don't think women are uninterested in politics, either. We just think about it/engage in it in different ways.

 

[CurtSibling]

This forum is but a shadow of itself in more glorious times.

CFC is trudging through the fading lights...

 

[Miles Teg]

This forum is but a shadow of itself in more glorious times.

CFC is trudging through the fading lights...

To quote Scripture, "Do not say "Why were the former days better than these?" For it is not from wisdom that you ask this question.""

Personally, I like these boards because intelligent people of various views and expertise frequent these forums, as opposed to the general Internet's strong leaning towards liberalism, libertarianism, and technological expertise. Obviously, these are disproportionately represented even here, but it's as good as you get without heading for a forum catering to a specific viewpoint.

As far as the quality of debate goes, it's above average for any thing involving politics or religion, which frankly isn't saying much. There are better forums out there if you're willing to narrow down your focus, but the variety of Off-Topic is part of it's appeal. So you learn to put up with allot of covert (and overt) sniping, and a ton of deliberate obtuseness.

Overall, considering the difficulty of having a civil discussion of the issues of the day that is open to laymen, CFCOT excels. There are better places for any of the specifics, but I've yet to find a forum I liked better overall than CFCOT.

However, if you ever get your pet project up and running, drop me a private message. It'd be interesting if nothing else.

 

[kulade]

The people at cfcot will go far lengths to make themselves believe they are something more than people on a discussion board.

We can say that posters here talk about highbrow subjects, but we'd have to do a lot of pretending to think that any significant amount of them have any idea what they're talking about. Most people just hide their gilded intellect behind fancy verbiage and tl;drity.

There are a couple knowledgeable people here, Plotinus, Jericho Hill et alii, but it's not like they get into regular discussions with the majority of the population here, being mostly students who like to talk about how super cool their political beliefs are, and even tough they don't show it, do most of their posts with Wikipedia in the other tab.

But then again I probably could come to this site if it weren't so pretentious and uptight about itself. It's not Yahoo answers or /b/, but I know more intelligent sites (albeit not as big as this one).

 

[Huayna Capac357]

This is a good idea, but I don't know if it would work too well. We have some great debaters, but I don't know how long it would be before it would devolve into personal insults and OT.

I am not saying I'm a great debater, in fact sometimes I'm not even convinced by my arguments

 

[lumpthing]

There are better places for any of the specifics

I know more intelligent sites

Any chance you two could name names? I'd like to check them out.

 

[Bill3000]

This forum is but a shadow of itself in more glorious times.

CFC is trudging through the fading lights...

GET OFF MY LAWN

 

[Atrebates]

A forum that tries to be primarily intellectual is
http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/

Which is mainly a good place to watch religion vs. science explode endlessly in a series of beautiful fireworks.
And also see some world class pig-headedness. But there are some excellent posts occurring on the site. Haven't been there for years mind you... Had a different name and everything.

I'm always wary of anyone who thinks they argue well... They tend to be insanely obtuse rather than skilled

 

[plarq]

This forum is but a shadow of itself in more glorious times.

CFC is trudging through the fading lights...

That's why you left us for a while, is it?

 

[Desmond Hawkins]

I haven't noticed anything extraordinary with this forum, which may very well be an age-related issue.

What a party-pooper

Unfortunately, you have a point. But then again, there are a lot of old farts on these boards without a clue too.

 

[kulade]

Any chance you two could name names? I'd like to check them out.

Here's a site you should check out. I don't post there but I'm an avid browser at times.

(This is not the main forum. Click on "Archive" for their old forum, or "Forum" for their newer one that started a month or so ago.)

 

[Richard Cribb]

What a party-pooper

Unfortunately I don't consider it my duty to provide entertainment.

Unfortunately, you have a point.

I always have a point. If not, I refrain from posting. A temptation easily resisted.

But then again, there are a lot of old farts on these boards without a clue too.

Regrettably there is but a few. It's a damned shame.