Calling Carthage players! Carthage and the settlement limit/happiness problem

[MutilationWave]

So I've started my first Carthage game with Augustus today and I absolutely love the mechanics. I started right near to Rome and they want war badly, but I can already produce one warrior per turn in the capital. I currently have four towns with good resources, and I have two questions for Carthage players.

I want two more towns but it's going to be like thirty turns to get settlement limit increase. I'm already over it by two and my towns are all at -5 happiness. Should I just say screw it and drop two more towns? Should I try to take Rome?

How do you guys manage happiness with early Carthage? Does it even matter?

 

[Noble Zarkon]

I've played a couple of times with them, I've tended to expand early with my Colonists and waiting until Numidian Cavalry come along before going to war. By then you've likely got the +2 settlement limit from Carthaginian civics.

 

[MutilationWave]

I've played a couple of times with them, I've tended to expand early with my Colonists and waiting until Numidian Cavalry come along before going to war. By then you've likely got the +2 settlement limit from Carthaginian civics.

Thanks. All my settlements except the capital are at -6 to -7 happiness but... I took Rome! With warriors and slingers! Napoleon's warriors at 33 strength mine at 18 at full health! Why yes it is 4am.

I've got my complaints with the game but this was incredibly difficult and fun.

 

[aelf]

I was just thinking of starting a Carthage thread, but more about general strategy. I reckon that deserves its own thread.

Wrt to your question, I don't see why you want to get more settlements before resolving your happiness issues. What's the point? They're not necessary.

 

[UWHabs]

If you're already negative happiness, then every new settlement I think adds 5 more to that. Each unhappiness is like 2% to all yields, so you're adding -10% to all your settlements.

Assuming you can pack enough happiness into your capital to not be impacted, basically settling another town would give you -10% to each of your other towns, and your new town probably starts at like 80% of its yield total.

So that's the basic math. Obviously it will take some time for the new town to pay itself back, but at the same time, if it nets you space, and you're not far away from the spots to re-coup those settlement limits, it's not that bad to go even more over the limit. If your capital (or for other civs), if they are into the negatives, that might not be as good, since losing legit yields can hurt. But for other towns, it's probably more of a mild inconvenience than anything that would truly limit you. I would say to expand out as much as you can fill, and then just make sure to beeline for the settlement bonuses.

 

[MutilationWave]

I was just thinking of starting a Carthage thread, but more about general strategy. I reckon that deserves its own thread.

Wrt to your question, I don't see why you want to get more settlements before resolving your happiness issues. What's the point? They're not necessary.

The point would be to secure resources and land. But now that Napoleon insisted on war, I've taken his capital with great difficulty and I might just eat up the rest of his empire if I can manage.

 

[MutilationWave]

If you're already negative happiness, then every new settlement I think adds 5 more to that. Each unhappiness is like 2% to all yields, so you're adding -10% to all your settlements.

Assuming you can pack enough happiness into your capital to not be impacted, basically settling another town would give you -10% to each of your other towns, and your new town probably starts at like 80% of its yield total.

So that's the basic math. Obviously it will take some time for the new town to pay itself back, but at the same time, if it nets you space, and you're not far away from the spots to re-coup those settlement limits, it's not that bad to go even more over the limit. If your capital (or for other civs), if they are into the negatives, that might not be as good, since losing legit yields can hurt. But for other towns, it's probably more of a mild inconvenience than anything that would truly limit you. I would say to expand out as much as you can fill, and then just make sure to beeline for the settlement bonuses.

Thank you for the detailed explanation, there was a lot I didn't know there. So if I let my towns drop to like -11 there's no risk of them flipping to another civ? I can keep the capital happy where the real yields are.

 

[aelf]

Thank you for the detailed explanation, there was a lot I didn't know there. So if I let my towns drop to like -11 there's no risk of them flipping to another civ? I can keep the capital happy where the real yields are.

I believe the flip happens only during the happiness crisis. But beware that the likelihood of getting that crisis is pretty high if you're over the settlement limit when the crisis period hits, and that can happen suddenly depending on what the AI does and if you complete the military legacy path.

 

[Leucarum]

As carthage - trading outposts are definitely your friend. There is a civic which causes them to gain great work slots, which you'll likely need to do the scientific legacy path, and the happiness from resources helps alleviate some of the issues I do also find Carthage suffers from with happiness.

 

[MutilationWave]

I believe the flip happens only during the happiness crisis. But beware that the likelihood of getting that crisis is pretty high if you're over the settlement limit when the crisis period hits, and that can happen suddenly depending on what the AI does and if you complete the military legacy path.

I got barbarians on my very first age transition and I've had happiness crisis every single other time. Something about the way I play. Usually I'm chaining celebrations though so Carthage is very different for me in a fun way.