Calling politicians "liars" illegal in France

[chauism]

Calling politicians "liars" illegal in France
A woman accused of "public slander against a government member" has been summoned to the police station.

The reason: this 49 year old woman from Saint-Paul-lès-Dax (Southern France) posted a three word comment on the video hosting website Dailymotion.

What were those words?

"Boo, the liar".

"The liar" referred to Nadine Morano, the French Secretary of State for Family. The video was an extract of a TV interview where she denied that she infiltrated a Ségolène Royal meeting (during the 2007 presidential campaign - NdT)

Last February, Nadine Morano filed a complaint. According to the newspaper Le Point, the public prosecution service opened a preliminary investigation for "public slander", on the 13th of February.

Following this investigation, Dailymotion and YouTube received a judicial summons from the Repression of Delinquency against Individuals Brigade. (RDIB)

According to the newspaper Sud Ouest, the RDIB's aim was to "urgently obtain the date, hour and IP addresses used, as well as any identifying element regarding the publication of the comment".



Comment: This summons is another evidence of France's "easy slide into fascism". The Brigade's decision to get the IP addresses of Internet users following an innocuous comment on a video hosting website is in accordance with the "three strike law" on the Internet, which targets illegal downloading and allows authorities to spy on the Internet users and collect their IP addresses. See here and here.


On May the 12th, this 49 year old woman and mother of three will find herself at Dax's police station, to be audienced by a judicial police officer from the RDIB - a unit attached to the Paris-based judicial police regional head office. All because she dared to write this outrageous sentence:

"Booh, the liar".


Comment: A few months ago, the Swiss public channel TSR broadcasted a program where several guests talked about the French humorist Dieudonné - who, by the way, is also the leader of the Anti-Zionist party, and who will take part in Sunday's European election. One of the guests commented that Dieudonné was not very smart. Another guest, the TV producer and radio personality Pascal Bernheim, then replied : "Yeah... he's a . .. .. .. .. .. .".

Dieudonné filed a complaint against Pascal Bernheim for racial slander. The Swiss justice dismissed the complaint on the 20th May.

As a consequence of this decision, Dieudonné published a humorous video sketch, where he congratulated the Swiss justice for defending the freedom of speech and for creating a case law, and which allowed him to answer Pascal Bernheim in his own (humorous) way: (quoting) "the powerful zionist yid lobby is a bunch of thefts and liars".

His intention was obviously to prove that the judicial system was two-tier. He was proven right: a few days after the publication of the video on the Internet, an investigation was opened against him for antisemitic slander.

So, it seems that in Switzerland and in France, you can safely insult Black people, but not Jews (especially if you're an anti-zionist Black humorist). Nor can you call a politician a "liar".

Calling politicians "liars" illegal in France

 

[Miles Teg]

France never gets to call us fascists ever again.

 

[Bill3000]

...what the hell...

Jesus Christ, criticizing government members is possibly the most fundamental part of freedom of speech. What the hell is it with you Eurocoms?

 

[Evie]

Credible source plz.

The current article link to what is apparently a wiki-ish (not quite a Wiki, but still open-to-mass-collaborative-writing) french site.

If true, and if there are no redeeming elements to the events (eg, elements the article skipped over), this is indeed very disturbing.

 

[bhsup]

I do believe that's a tear I see trickling down the face of the Statue of Liberty on the Seine.

 

[Bill3000]

I think this is the article, but it's in French. A francophone might want to verify this.

http://www.numerama.com/magazine/13...-dit-choquee-par-la-convocation-au-poste.html

 

[Joecoolyo]

Wow, that blog site is very anti-Israel....

Anyways, I think its time for Freedom Fries again!

 

[Rashiminos]

There's a big relative in Europe.

 

[Kerozine]

Credible source plz.

The current article link to what is apparently a wiki-ish (not quite a Wiki, but still open-to-mass-collaborative-writing) french site.

If true, and if there are no redeeming elements to the events (eg, elements the article skipped over), this is indeed very disturbing.

Le Parisien good enough?

 

[Bigfoot3814]

I think it's a good idea, because if somebody calls a politician a liar, it might, like, hurt their feelings or something.

 

[Evie]

I think this is the article, but it's in French. A francophone might want to verify this.

http://www.numerama.com/magazine/13...-dit-choquee-par-la-convocation-au-poste.html

French speaker reporting for duty!

She thought she would be defending her image: instead she made things even worse. The state secretary for families, who filled a complaint against web users who she said had insulted her, said today she was angry and shocked over the police convocation of a mother who said "Hooo the liar" in response to a video about her. The medias having largely echoed the judicial proceedinggs, Nadine Morano is now trying to extinguish the fire she started.

"My complaint against X was aimed solely at the people who wrote grave insults which have no place in a democratic system*," she explained to the AFP. "I wouldn't sue a person who just said "Hoo the liar"!, that's within the field of democratic speech. She'S allowed to disagree with me, that doesn't bother me."

Nadine Morano asked her lawyer to "ensure the proceedings are in accord with the spirit of her legal complaint.", so that "There is no no disproportionate excess".

The lawyer, me. Lataste, explained that "he took screenshots with the relevant insults", and that he transmitted them to the judicial apparatus. "I am not responsible for the investigation of the policemen. Maybe the net user who wrote "Hoo the liar!" was easier to identify than any other. It is a sad thing, but if a policeman decide to be over-zealous, there is nothing I can do about it."

However, it appears the message was indeed one sent to the judicial.

*EG, presumably actual slander.

Quite a mess, seems a little overplayed in the original article, and more likely the result of a combination of overzealous /oversensitive/overtoadying cretins than a deliberate "slide in fascism".

Mind also, per Le Parisien she has only been convoked to meet the police, which sounds like the police got a complaint and are looking into it by meeting such involved individuals as they can find. Which is, I suppose, what the police is supposed to do when they get a complaint (excluding frivolous complaints against individuals they can't investigate, or involving things that aren't even related to any law anyone can think of).

Even so, that the complaint was made at all, and was taken seriously enough to get to that point, cannot be said to be a good thing by any definition.

 

[chauism]

...what the hell...

Jesus Christ, criticizing government members is possibly the most fundamental part of freedom of speech. What the hell is it with you Eurocoms?

Calling politicians "liars" should be a serious crime. It should be charged as treason, because the offenders are revealing their national top secrets. Death penalty please.

 

[Traitorfish]

A minister issues a complaint against what could technically be considered slander, the police are obliges to give it a token investigation, minister hurridly backtracks when they realise that they've been made to look like a spiteful loony. Can't say that this is hugely shocking, just... Silly.

 

[chauism]

A minister issues a complaint against what could technically be considered slander, the police are obliges to give it a token investigation, minister hurridly backtracks when they realise that they've been made to look like a spiteful loony. Can't say that this is hugely shocking, just... Silly.

Slander!!!??? Only if Nadine Morano never lied about anything in her whole life. As Gregroy House would say: "Everybody lies"

 

[GinandTonic]

Is there some reason why politicians should not have the rights extended to every other member of society? Someone made an accusation against another person. They happen to be a politician. Sure they can press for slander. The defendant can then hire the most expensive lawer in the country, prove that the politico in question lied at some point in their whole life. Then pass the costs to the petulant politico and get his sorry arse evicted and his children cast into the gutter.

Make it one of those cases with £1 damages and £1,000,000 costs.

 

[Bill3000]

Is there some reason why politicians should not have the rights extended to every other member of society?

Because they're public figures, and it's incredibly important to be able to criticize public figures.

 

[GinandTonic]

Because they're public figures, and it's incredibly important to be able to criticize public figures.

Balls. If public figures should be excluded from slander laws then Fox should be able to run a week long special with interviews of the child-victims of Obamas rape by gerbil-insertion?

Everyone is entitled to the protection of the law, even politicos.

 

[Bill3000]

Balls. If public figures should be excluded from slander laws then Fox should be able to run a week long special with interviews of the child-victims of Obamas rape by gerbil-insertion?

Sure, why not?

More seriously, public figures aren't excluded from defamation laws, it's just harder for them because they have to prove malicious intent. The burden of proof is on them. It's important that the burden of proof is on them, etc because otherwise that would simply lead to a chilling effect on criticizing public figures. They're not usually done for politicians because of the massive political backlash that would occur.

Really though there's a huge difference between what you suggested and calling a politician a "liar".

 

[chauism]

Is there some reason why politicians should not have the rights extended to every other member of society? Someone made an accusation against another person. They happen to be a politician. Sure they can press for slander. The defendant can then hire the most expensive lawer in the country, prove that the politico in question lied at some point in their whole life. Then pass the costs to the petulant politico and get his sorry arse evicted and his children cast into the gutter.

Make it one of those cases with £1 damages and £1,000,000 costs.

Would you sue me if I call you a liar here?

 

[chauism]

Balls. If public figures should be excluded from slander laws then Fox should be able to run a week long special with interviews of the child-victims of Obamas rape by gerbil-insertion?

Everyone is entitled to the protection of the law, even politicos.

I don't see any problem with that. After that Fox would have more to worry about its own reputation and its credibility as if there is any left than Obama does. Besides how many negative ads are there during the election campaigns? It comes with the job.