Cambodian Civilization for VP

[Kim Dong Un]

Trying this civ for the first time (with 3/4UC) and my Chivopol are taking up unit supply despite it stating they're not supposed to.

Spoiler :

Also, will the Phnom Preah provide the same yields if placed onto an unimproved tile? E.g., will two stone tiles, one with quarry the other without, provide same yields after Phnom Preah is placed on top of both?

Bonus: Gandhi is the only civ I didn't want as a neighbour because I'm using a modmod that changes civ colours, and would you look at that...

Spoiler :

 

[pineappledan]

I keep forgetting to update the text.
I removed the no supply bonus. It was a mediocre bonus and it didn't work for a while there

 

[Kim Dong Un]

One small thing I'll critique so far through 250+ turns is the fact that, due to this being a Tradition civ, any UA bonuses are basically coming in through your capital (I realize this is true for a lot of Tradition civs, but still...) - satellite cities and their low hammers / infrastructure are almost always catching up with plenty of essential buildings to still construct, so will rarely ever be completing wonders and/or public works. I actually have managed to build a couple wonders in some secondary cities, but I've found the food/faith yields, when received, to be underwhelming and almost inconsequential as the game progresses passed the early game; the GE% boost in the capital is what pulls all of the weight, understandably.

Despite this, I still am really enjoying my game and having fun with the civ - the mechanics and utility behind the Phnom Preah are great! By the way, does the "+5%Production towards Wonders in City working a Phnom Preah" stack? I.e., will my capital working the max of 6 possible Phnom Preah get a 30% bonus to future wonder production?

One last thing I like as I choose my final policy tree, is that despite this being a tall civ where rationalism usually reigns supreme (even for a CV), I'm having a really tough time deciding against Industry due to the synergy with GE (Tromeak) bulbing for late game. Plus, the extra TR's, Broadway, and much needed hammers for my satellite cities would be tough to ignore. I'm only a couple techs behind the leader so science isn't necessarily an issue, but Rationalism would still bring lots of goodies considering 6 out of the other 7 civs are high-culture civs (India, Morocco, Poland, Polynesia, etc.). It may be better to abandon CV and adjust to SV at this point...Hmm, decisions, decisions, decisions.

Keep up the great work! Hopefully the AI problems eventually get ironed out so the AI can competently use the Tromeak.

 

[pineappledan]

satellite cities and their low hammers / infrastructure are almost always catching up with plenty of essential buildings to still construct, so will rarely ever be completing wonders and/or public works

It's worth it to try to build 1-2 wonders outside your capital so you can get the 2 per phnom preah in your secondary cities, once you run out of places near your capital.

the GE% boost in the capital is what pulls all of the weight, understandably.

The bonus on wonder construction scales with the base cost of the wonder. This scales more steeply than an era scaler, which is important because I was finding that the yields either dropped off entirely in the late game, or the yields were way too strong in the early game. The nature of and yields also means they are not valuable yields in any amount late game anyways. And yes, the % GE modifier certainly compensates for how those yields drop off.

does the "+5%Production towards Wonders in City working a Phnom Preah" stack?

It stacks, yes.

I'm having a really tough time deciding against Industry due to the synergy with GE (Tromeak) bulbing for late game. Plus, the extra TR's, Broadway, and much needed hammers for my satellite cities would be tough to ignore. I'm only a couple techs behind the leader so science isn't necessarily an issue, but Rationalism would still bring lots of goodies considering 6 out of the other 7 civs are high-culture civs (India, Morocco, Poland, Polynesia, etc.). It may be better to abandon CV and adjust to SV at this point...Hmm, decisions, decisions, decisions.

The Tromeak already has approximately 2x the scaling bonus between its own ability and any Phnom Preah you add, so I wouldn't worry about a measly +25% or whatever. That's only slightly more bonus than you would get for an extra Phnom Preah. It sounds to me like you will have a tough time with a CV; switching to an SV for rationalism lets you convert more food into production, since having a ring of 6 Phnom Preah effectively gives a city a 2 per scaler. Perhaps it depends on what you did with your religion?

 

[Kim Dong Un]

The bonus on wonder construction scales with the base cost of the wonder. This scales more steeply than an era scaler, which is important because I was finding that the yields either dropped off entirely in the late game, or the yields were way too strong in the early game. The nature of and yields also means they are not valuable yields in any amount late game anyways.

Hmm, fair enough. Thank you for addressing my invalid concern.

It stacks, yes.

Sweet! I figured as much since my capital is now hovering around close to 200% GE rate.

The Tromeak already has approximately 2x the scaling bonus between its own ability and any Phnom Preah you add, so I wouldn't worry about a measly +25% or whatever. That's only slightly more bonus than you would get for an extra Phnom Preah. It sounds to me like you will have a tough time with a CV; switching to an SV for rationalism lets you convert more food into production, since having a ring of 6 Phnom Preah effectively gives a city a 2 per scaler. Perhaps it depends on what you did with your religion?

Yeah, Industry was probably not the most optimal choice with those extra insta-hammers likely being inconsequential at that point, but it's actually been decent so far and I get to once again see how it stacks up against a rationalism civ trying to pull away in techs. I'm still gunning for the CV (with all the recent chatter, I wanted to see how CV currently feels considering it's been a while since I've played tall) and I think I can do it, especially since the AI seems quite passive this version and has left me be for the most part despite me wonder-spamming.

My religion was setup nicely with Pilgrim/Stupas/Sacred Sites, but Polynesia was a huge pain in the behind throughout mid-game with his 3 spread (Borobudur) missionaries, even using a couple prophets within my lands and surrounding CS; I had to use way more faith than I would have liked on Inquisitors, just to solidify my grounds and revert Polynesian/Indian pressure, but things are settled now after giving Kame a taste of his own medicine with my own (and only) faith-bought prophet. I've entered Industrial and have begun saving up faith for the final 100+ turns, where I can assemble my musical fleet and maybe pop a few Tromeaks if needed. I'm only on King, after all, but this civ seems well suited to achieve what I set out to accomplish - we shall see. Thanks again, I plan on eventually giving the Philippines a try next once they're ironed out a bit more.

 

[Kim Dong Un]

@pineappledan

Just letting you know I won that Khmer CV on turn 359, (despite the culture heavy civs present and travel ban being in effect for the previous 50 turns alongside the current zoo bug which lost forest/jungle tourism/science) and after playing through mid/late game I must say that I was wrong about the food/faith from the UA - once Industry came online and my hammers/infrastructure picked up throughout satellite cities, I found many situations where I was able to consistently build PW in a few turns, sprinkling in a handful of wonders in my secondary cities, for a nice little boost. I'm pretty sure by the end of the game my capital alone was over 300% GE boost, with each Phnom Preah yielding 30+ hammers as the foundation for my 1000+ production metropolis. I really enjoyed the civ, so kudos again!

 

[pineappledan]

icon update

 

[pineappledan]

GE burst increased to 25%, per 02-23

 

[pineappledan]

Working on an overhaul for the UA right now
Old UA:
Gain Food and Faith on the completion of a World Wonder or Public Works Project, scaling with the production cost. +5% Great Engineer Point in the City For every World Wonder, National Wonder, or Public Works in a City

New UA:
Cities gain Food and Faith instantly and +1 Great Engineer Point per turn whenever they complete a World Wonder or Public Works Project.

The Instant boost stays the same, but the GEngineer bonus will work off base GPP points instead of a % modifier. This is always what I envisioned for this civ, but we will see if it is any better in practice than what we already have.

 

[pineappledan]

hotfix posted:
fixes lua error causing GEngineer points given by the UA to ignore % GPP modifiers

GEngineer points given for each world wonder/public works in a city do not appear in the UA, so this new UA is a little more opaque than the old version, but it should now scale properly into the late game.

 

[pineappledan]

Khmer UA instant bonuses increased by 50% (yields are Triple the per turn food yield)

I removed the 5% wonder production modifier per Phnom Preah worked. It was too similar to Egypt in my opinion.

I have gotten some reports that this civ is a little on the weak side. Hopefully we can come up with some satisfactory ways to strengthen the civ if more people agree. I'm thinking the Prasat could be looked at again.

 

[FyreFly_]

I think I may have encountered a bug. Non-capital cities that build wonders do not receive the GEngineer points.

 

[pineappledan]

The GEPs rate won’t show up in the UI, but they will grow. Check next turn and see if the GEP count is more than 58

 

[FyreFly_]

The GEPs rate won’t show up in the UI, but they will grow. Check next turn and see if the GEP count is more than 58

You're right, the city is indeed still gaining more GEP. Thanks!

 

[Willy_the_Kid]

Out of all extra civs I downloaded for VP, this seems to be the only one I can't get the 3/4UC components to show up in the game. Any idea why that might be?

 

[pineappledan]

Try adding a line to the modinfo file and re-saving

 

[Willy_the_Kid]

Try adding a line to the modinfo file and re-saving

Worked a treat. My thanks and utmost respect.

 

[Hokiefan00]

I am not sure if it's my install, as I've been having issues with extra civs lately, but if I research Bronze Working before Construction then I can no longer build Warriors. Not the end of the World, but not ideal either.

 

[pineappledan]

Intended. Warriors obsolete at bronze. The spear that would ordinarily be on bronze is moved to construction

 

[Hinin]

I am not sure if it's my install, as I've been having issues with extra civs lately, but if I research Bronze Working before Construction then I can no longer build Warriors. Not the end of the World, but not ideal either.

That's because Warriors go obsolete at Bronze Working, since it usually is where you unlock the Spearman. That's not something the mod can change easily : one solution could be to create a new warrior specifically for the civ that obsoletes at Construction instead of Bronze Working. That said, I think that's a very niche scenario for a civ which incentivizes you very much to go for Construction quickly, and avoid Bronze Working early on.