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Came back after a few months, district cost formula still kills the game

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Tomice, May 4, 2017.

  1. historix69

    historix69 Emperor

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2008
    Messages:
    1,242
    I guess that the accumulation of science per era relative to total science to research all tech throughout the game is something like :

    Antique : 0 %
    Classic : 1 %
    Medieval : 3 %
    Renaissance : 6 %
    Industrial : 15 %
    Modern Era: 20 %
    Atomic Era : 25 %
    Information Era : 30 %

    When district costs would scale directly with science, the effect would be neglectible for the first half of the game and would then become more significant by raising costs by 200% - 300% (relative to base costs) per Era.

    District cost would then develop approximately like this :

    Antique : 60
    Classic :
    Medieval :
    Renaissance : ... - 120
    Industrial : 120 - 200
    Modern Era: 200 - 300
    Atomic Era : 300 - 440
    Information Era : 440 - 600

    Edit :
    From save games I have following values as reference :

    Antique :
    Classic : 135 (turn 50)
    Medieval : 200 (turn 100)
    Renaissance : 238 (turn 150)
    Industrial : 340 (turn 200)
    Modern Era: 438 (turn 250)
    Atomic Era :
    Information Era : 546 (turn 300)
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2017
  2. c4c6

    c4c6 Prince

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2016
    Messages:
    438
    I can confirm your numbers - here those I had toyed with:
    Code:
    Ancient: 3x25, 5x50, 3x80 =   565
    Classic: 4x120, 4x200     =  1280
    Medieva: 3x300, 4x390     =  2460
    Renaiss: 5x540, 4x660     =  5340
    Industr: 4x845, 4x970     =  7260
    Modern : 3x1140, 4x1250   =  8420
    Atomic : 5x1410, 3x1580   = 11790
    Informa: 6x1850, 3x2155   = 17565
    ---------------------------------
                                54680
    
    Ancient:  1.033%
    Classic:  2.341%  Σ  3.374%
    Medieva:  4.499%  Σ  7.873%
    Renaiss:  9.766%  Σ 17.639%
    Industr: 13.277%  Σ 30.916%
    Modern : 15.399%  Σ 46.315%
    Atomic : 21.562%  Σ 67.877%
    Informa: 32.123%  Σ100%
    
    Starting District cost (all techs of past eras, no of the current era)
    Ancient:  60
    Classic:  65.6
    Medieva:  78.2
    Renaiss: 102.5
    Industr: 155.3
    Modern : 226.9
    Atomic : 310.1
    Informa: 426.5
    
    Scaling the District costs directly on science and culture would result in initial MUCH lower increases and raising significantly quite late.

    If the principled curve shall not be changed, for just abolishing artificial tech&civic-development changes, the simplest way would be just use for the calculation also the commenced techs/civics (in percentage of completion).
     
    historix69 likes this.
  3. c4c6

    c4c6 Prince

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    I forgot to mention, that I used the numbers from Grumalg's great Civ VI Reference 1.1

    Provided that Techs are more advanced than Civics, the comparable values are currently:
    Code:
    Starting District cost (all techs of past eras, none of the current era)
    Ancient:  60
    Classic: 148.7
    Medieva: 213.1
    Renaiss: 269.6
    Industr: 342.1
    Modern : 406.6
    Atomic : 463.0
    Informa: 527.5
    
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2017
  4. kaspergm

    kaspergm Deity

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    Great research. I wholeheartedly support this idea. An increase like this would make first half of game much more sufferable, it will take out a lot of the stupid micro like researching a turn up to -1 turn, and it would still have some scaling in the same overall thought of the current version.
     
  5. Photi

    Photi Governor

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    i just came across the following, something i did not know before:

    http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Districts_(Civ6)
     
  6. ezzlar

    ezzlar Emperor

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    I would like the city center to have a low level building for all yields. A library, a shrine, a workshop etc giving a small yield.

    District cost should scale with total number of districts in empire and total number of districts in that city wishing to build one.

    Edit: And population shouldnt give so much. Nothing even maybe. Tile or district yield should be enough.
     
  7. Leyrann

    Leyrann Deity

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    I'm pretty sure this is incorrect, and it is actually the districts that you build less than your own average. If I have a huge, 20 city empire, I wouldn't expect to have less than average Entertainment Complexes, yet the price is reduced.
     
  8. c4c6

    c4c6 Prince

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    I'd like this detail. Seldom built district types on discount!

    (The longer I think about them, the more I like Ed Beach's district design decisions ... "logging in" ASAP district prices is ok ...)
     
  9. UWHabs

    UWHabs Deity

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    I definitely feel that it's very unfair that for culture, you have monuments, but nothing for the others. Honestly, most games I get the vast majority of my culture from simply building monuments and then using the +1 culture per district policy, combined with the culture by population. Especially since theatre squares have very poor adjacency bonuses, and it's only much later in the game once artifacts come online that I can actually get much culture from the theatre square.

    I mean, in most cases, building an entertainment complex + arena will likely give me a greater yield than the theater, since the EC+arena gives +2 amenities. That will either let me:
    -grow 4 pop, yielding 2.8 science, 1.2 culture, plus tile yields, or,
    -push my city from being content to happy, giving +5% to all yields

    I mean, before broadcast towers come online, the theatre district is only giving me probably +1 from adjacency, and then +2 each from the first 2 buildings. It is nice to push your culture, and you can see that if you play as civs like Brasil or Japan which can get +3, +4, or more from their theatre squares due to their extra adjacencies, but without those extras, theatre squares just aren't powerful enough. Even if they doubled the adjacency, so that they were +2 for each wonder and +1 for each adjacent district, I think that would help need them more. I also feel that the monument should be +1 culture and +1 faith, and those combined would definitely force me to build more theatres.
     
    stinkubus likes this.
  10. MyOtherName

    MyOtherName Emperor

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    I'm not entirely sure how "fair" applies here.

    EC + arena doesn't let you grow 4 pop. It simply busts a cap -- in even a moderately sized city you still have to spend an enormous amount of food to actually get those four citizens.

    You don't have to spend an enormous amount of food to get the culture from a theater square and its buildings. However, if you really wanted to spend food to get culture, they also unlock that ability via citizen slots.

    Overall, you seem to be completely neglecting the great people point yields too.
     
  11. stinkubus

    stinkubus Emperor

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    Theatre squares should get adjacencies with dyes and silks. Better sets and costumes for the Amphitheaters, paint for your GAs, etc.
     
    DizzKneeLand33 likes this.

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