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Camelot!

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Completed Scenarios' started by Azmorg, May 12, 2006.

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What do you think of CAMELOT!? Should there be an update?

  1. A great scenario. Can’t wait for an update.

    17 vote(s)
    65.4%
  2. A good scenario. If you do an update, I might check it out.

    7 vote(s)
    26.9%
  3. An ok scenario. Not interested in an update.

    1 vote(s)
    3.8%
  4. This thing is so bad no update could make it better.

    1 vote(s)
    3.8%
  1. Azmorg

    Azmorg Bretwalda

    Joined:
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    Camelot!
    Welcome to…
    CAMELOT.gif
    CAMELOT!
    The Romans have left merry old England which must now fend for itself. Into the power vacuum cometh the barbarian hordes. Picts & Scots to the north. Saxons, Angels & Jutes to the east. Can the Britons, the Dumnonii and the Cymry unite to repel the invaders? Will the ancient cousins from across the sea, the Gauls, send help? And what of the Franks and the Belgae? Are they friend or foe? Is Rome gone for good, or can she be persuaded to return the legions? Is there any hope?

    The theme is that of the Arthurian Legend. Choose to play one of the invading races and see if you can fill the void left by the departing Romans. Play as Arthur of the Britons and see if you can hold off the barbarians and maintain the glory that was the Pax Romana. Which ever you choose, victory can come through building the Pendragon wonder and getting yourself elected Bretwalda. But perhaps you will put your faith in that which is lost.

    The legend of the Holy Grail arises from the ancient mists of time forgotten. Did it ever really exist, or was it just a myth. Was it the stairway to heaven, priceless, worth killing to possess? Or die trying? Did the Knights of the Round Table ever find it? Or is it indeed lost for all time? Will the light of life be extinguished in the west? Will the forces of darkness prevail against the champions of truth? Build the Round Table, send out your Great Knights on the most righteous of quests! Find that which has been lost. Return the Holy Grail to your capital city and be crowned the Once & Future King. Fail, and the barbarians will forever plunge the emerald isle into the darkest of ages. But if you succeed, light will prevail, peace will flourish. So put on your armour, grab your lance, mount your faithful steed and come travel the land in search of the precious Grail. Do what you must to preserve the legend of...
    CAMELOT!

    This scenario/mod is set on a map of Great Britain, with part of Ireland and the coasts of Brittany & Flanders included. There are 12 playable races that all begin with one settler. Civilizations are developed as in the standard game, but with only 2 victory conditions: Diplomacy and Reverse Capture the Flag.

    A Diplomacy victory is made possible by building the Pendragon Great Wonder. Criteria for election are the same as in the standard Conquests game.

    The Reverse Capture the Flag victory is really how the game was designed to be played. The flag unit is the Holy Grail. The object is to find the Grail and return it to your capital city. Doing so will award 10,000 victory points which is all that is needed to win. The Grail is the only way to gain victory points. The only units that are able to “see” the Grail (it’s invisible), are the Great Knights. Great Knights can only be built by the Round Table Small Wonder. Every civ can build this wonder, so the game is really a race to progress through the tech tree, build the Round Table and send out your Great Knights to find the Grail.

    Now, there is one caveat that must be stated to ensure the integrity of the game is maintained. I tried to make the Great Knights the only units that could Capture. However, I discovered that the AI didn’t like this. If Capture is not checked for military units, then the options for Offense or Defense are greyed out. And if the AI doesn’t know how to play a military unit, it won’t build them. Stupid AI! So, I have had to leave the Capture field checked for all units. This means that even though a unit (other than the Great Knights) can’t “see” the Holy Grail, it could possibly stumble upon it by chance, thus being able to Capture it. Fortunately, in perhaps 30 some times I’ve tested the scenario this has never happened.

    Most of the standard game pieces have be altered. All the Leaderheads have been changed; most of the units, too. Governments have been added, some deleted. Same with Techs & Resources. Lots of changes to Buildings & Wonders. And, the Civilopedia has been updated to reflect all the changes. One big change that will be noticed right away is that Womoks terrain is used. I like it quite a lot and it’s not used very much in other scenarios. Lastly, there is an altered music score. It is not necessary for the game to play, but if you do download it, I believe you will find it quite enjoyable.

    One item that might leave some disgruntled is that I did not keep track of who I borrowed what from. So other than the following, I cannot provide a detailed list of credits. But I do thank, CivArmy, Kinboat, BeBro, R8XFT, Aaglo, Womoks. I especially thank Plotinus for his most excellent Rood & Dragon scenario. It is the inspiration for my efforts and the level of achievement to which I aspire.

    Here are the links. They are quite large. I hope that is not too off-putting.

    Scenario, 152mb:
    http://www.3ddownloads.com/Strategy/Civilization 3/Mods/Camelot//Camelot!.rar

    Music, 94mb:
    http://www.3ddownloads.com/Strategy/Civilization 3/Mods/Camelot//build.rar


    There are three known issues. Just go to the following posts for an explantion and fix for two of them. The third was regarding the custom music which is fixed by a new upload to 3D Downloads. The link posted directly above is the new link.

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4057989&postcount=22

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4096854&postcount=52
     
  2. conquer_dude

    conquer_dude Imperial Slave

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    Screenshots?
     
  3. Azmorg

    Azmorg Bretwalda

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Camelot!
    Screenshots will be forthcoming.

    Here are some pertinent stats

    Governments:
    Despotism- as in normal game
    Tribalism- communual corruption, forced labor
    Druidic Circle- xenophobic, can't hurry production
    The Great Thane- similar to Feudalism
    The Witan- paid labor, corruption a nuisance
    Imperialism- just like the Republic
    Monarchy- similar to the regular game, minimal corruption


    Tribes:
    Romans, Bretons, Dumnonii, Cymry, Scotti, Cruithni, Saxons, Angels, Jutes, Gauls, Franks, Belgae

    No one likes the Romans, and they don't really like anyone else.
    The Bretons & Dumnonii are the same culture group (CG), or flavor, Breton.
    The Cymry, Scotti & Cruithni are the same CG, Gallic. They are friendly with the Breton CG.
    The Saxons, Angels & Jutes are the same CG, Saxon. They hate the Bretons & Gaels.
    The Gauls, Franks & Belgae are sort of wild cards. Sometimes they fall with the Saxons, sometimes with the Bretons. The Gauls are more inclined towards the Bretons, the Franks & Belgae, more to the Saxons.

    (More stats to follow)
     
  4. Azmorg

    Azmorg Bretwalda

    Joined:
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    Here are some images:


    BretonGreatKnight.gif Breton Great Knight DruidicCircle-large.gif Druidic Circle gov't

    HolyGrail-large.gif Holy Grail RoundTable.gif Round Table Map.JPG Map


    More screenies in posts #10 & 23
     
  5. Wolfhart

    Wolfhart The Last in Line

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    Nah seriously, I love the epics of Chrétien de Troyes and Sir Thomas Malory. Looking forward to trying this scenario.
     
  6. Plotinus

    Plotinus Philosopher Super Moderator

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    It looks fantastic - in fact I already have a sort of preview copy which I haven't had time to check out yet, but believe me I will in the very near future. This looks like a very well put together scenario.
     
  7. Stormrage

    Stormrage Ever Present Taskmaster

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    Looks interesting :)
     
  8. Acrux

    Acrux Warlord

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    Looking good!
     
  9. Agroschim

    Agroschim Chieftain

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    Some ingame screenshots?
     
  10. Azmorg

    Azmorg Bretwalda

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    Camelot!
    Well, that would mean I'd have to play the game.

    Do you know how many times I've played this thing?

    Do you really think I want to play it again? :cry:

    Just kidding. :lol:

    I'll get some presently



    Here are those screenies I promised.
    Let me know if there's a standard sort of screen shot that most folk expect.

    Merlin.JPG Stonehenge.JPG

    Smithing.JPG Tartan.JPG
     
  11. conquer_dude

    conquer_dude Imperial Slave

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    Looks great!
     
  12. Plotinus

    Plotinus Philosopher Super Moderator

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    Well, I've finally had time to take this for a preliminary whirl. And I like it very much!

    It all looks very nice. Womack's terrain is just right for this sort of thing, quite legendary and epic looking. You've done great working in selecting good units, LHs and so on to layer on the atmos. Nice use of multiunits. One suggestion: Utahjazz's Medieval Archer would be perfect in there as one of the archer units. Also, you should probably rename the Visigoth Spearman.

    I notice that it’s set up so that you can choose which opponents you want.

    I was a bit surprised to be starting in 5000 BC, building Stonehenge and suchlike! No chance of looking for the Grail when it won't even be made for another five millennia. It looks like you've set up the timeline to go fairly quickly into the early Middle Ages and slow down there. But it seems to work pretty well - you get a sense of building up the various civs in Britain and progressing from tribal times to the age of chivalry. In fact the tech tree seems to me to be very nicely constructed with a good progression, and imaginative unit lines.

    There are two small cosmetic quibbles with the tech tree: first, the little “preview” quotes for the techs (what the Advisor says when you roll over researchable ones) aren’t right, which is a shame as this is quite easy and fun to do. Also, some of the tech icons have got palette issues. You need to make sure that the last two colours in the palette aren't used, or they'll go magenta in the game. I really like lots of the tech icons, though - you've chosen some very nice pictures which really add to the atmosphere.

    And there are lots of really cool things in the tech tree! It's very nice to be able to research things like "The Bards" or "Druidic Circle", on the way to "Breton Quest". And in addition to the Wonders we might expect, such as Excalibur and the Round Table, we've got Boudicca's Lament and Taliesin's Harp. These really add colour to it. But it's a shame that most of them don't have pedia entries, which would really help. That goes for most of the units and improvements too, so I think that's the main area where a bit of improvement would help greatly. Also, there are one or two things which seem a bit out of place, such as the Great Lighthouse - it would be good to rename these to something a bit more period.

    So it's all looking pretty promising. It's great to see such a cool subject tackled with imagination and attention to detail. After all, this is Camelot - gotta do it justice!

    I haven't had time to play to the end of the first age yet, so I don't know how it's going to progress, and in particular I don't know how the quest for the Grail is going to shape up, but I'm certainly looking forward to finding out. Also, I haven't downloaded the music yet (am doing so right now, in fact), so I can't comment on that at this stage. But I'm really pleased that you've done a music download - I think it really adds something.

    Apart from all that, here are a few small quibbles with other aspects, all of which are pretty minor. I'm just including them as little things that can easily be corrected, not real problems.

    I notice that it’s set up so that you can choose which opponents you want. I think it would be better to set it so that the civs are fixed – that makes more sense for a scenario as opposed to a mod.

    It would be good to make the pcxs of the LHs match the eras that you’re using as animations.

    Not Angels, but Angles! Also, can it really be right to make Boudicca a Jute?

    Now, making Swindon an Arthurian city, that can't be right!

    The map seems a little eccentric in places. What are these enormous lakes on the Welsh border? And the Thames doesn't seem to be in there at all!

    It would make sense to change the pop heads - Chinese in Camelot?
     
  13. Tank_Guy#3

    Tank_Guy#3 Lion of Lehistan

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    It does kind of remind of Rood and Dragon a bit. But cool nonetheless.
     
  14. Azmorg

    Azmorg Bretwalda

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    Plotinus:

    Thank you for your detailed review. Your points are thoughtful and well taken.
    After working on something for so long, you begin to not see things anymore. If it seems that there is a general interest that would warrant the time, I will address these issues. Some I knew were not quite right, others I didn’t really think about.

    In particular, I am not familiar with your suggestion regarding the palette issue. Or rather, I am but do seem to be able to execute the suggestion. Perhaps someone might be able to offer a link to a tutorial, ie: how do you not use the last two colors of the palette; how many colors are supposed to be in a palette?

    I did take liberty with some of the geography. I was trying more for the look and feel of England and such, rather than complete accuracy.

    I had debated much with myself whether to start from 5000 BC or with more developed civs, cities and all. Also debated whether to make all civs playable or not. I would be greatly interested in reading a more detailed analysis of this from you, if you would have the time to do so.

    If more CIVers provide the sort of constructive criticism you did, and if there seems to be enough interest, perhaps a “version 2” would be warranted?

    Thank you again.
     
  15. Azmorg

    Azmorg Bretwalda

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    Well, it was the Rood & Dragon that provided the impetus and inpiration. One is much more factual, historical. The other, more mythical.

    In fact, the stories of Arthur and his knights would lend themselves quite well to a series of scenarios based on this (perhaps even merged with Rood & Dragon) as a mod.

    I hope that Camelot will become as well received.
     
  16. conquer_dude

    conquer_dude Imperial Slave

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    Still mising those in game screenshots, eh? ;)

    I'll see if I have time to play it.
     
  17. Plotinus

    Plotinus Philosopher Super Moderator

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    [Azmorg] A version 2 is always warranted - mods never get finished, they just get a break in the improvement process! But I think this scenario will be popular. It really helps if you put up screen shots of the game in progress though - people seem to like this a lot.

    Some people said I should have put Arthurian myths into my Rood scenario, but I didn't, simply because I wanted to keep the focus on the Anglo-Saxon world and invoke the atmosphere of their myths. Can't really have Arthur and Beowulf running around at the same time! So this scenario provides a nice counterpoint to that one (as does KingArthur's Go Viking scenario).

    On reflection I think that the idea of starting in 5000 BC but focusing on Arthurian times is actually really interesting and unusual. It makes the scenario feel like a cross between a mod of the Anno Domini type and a scenario like my own. You could probably draw more attention to this in your "advertising" text - steer your people from the dawn of civilisation to the search for the Grail! Or some such. I'd add that the game plays very quickly, too. Most of the improvements and units seem quick to build, and it's possible to settle a fair area in a relatively short time, which I like. Of course, I did play as Breton, and they have rather a good starting location...

    Palette issues: open up one of the Vanilla tech icons in your paint program and you'll see that the last two colours (possibly the first two, depending on which paint program you're using, as some of them show them in reverse) are bright green and magenta. These two positions in the palette are treated by the game as "background" or transparent, and it's a flat rule in Civ pcxs that you should never use them in your image. You don't have to make them green and magenta, but you do have to make sure they're not used. With icons, if you use these colours in your image, in-game they will be displayed as magenta. And that messes them up - see what happens to the icons for Monotheism and Bureaucracy, for example!

    I use NeoPaint, and I just change the offending colours to green and magenta, and then tell it to recolour any affected areas in the image to the nearest colour from elsewhere in the palette, thereby banishing them from the image (on the assumption that the image doesn't actually contain neon green and magenta). I'm sure you can do something similar with yours. That's the only problem you've got in that area - you have the right number of colours overall (256), for example. If you didn't, the icons wouldn't show at all.

    If you find you can't do it, then let me know and I can do it for you and send you the retouched icons - it wouldn't take a minute.
     
  18. Azmorg

    Azmorg Bretwalda

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    Camelot!


    Got some screenies up in Post #10.
     
  19. Acrux

    Acrux Warlord

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    I want to re-iterate Plotinus' points. You've made a very innovative mod - especially with regard to your time line. Very cool idea to go from pre-history to a nice medieval setting. As far as I know, that hasn't been done before.

    Also - I want to strongly encourage you to add to the pedia. It won't make or break any scenario in terms of playability, but it certainly adds a layer of immersion that really defines what Civ games are about. Plus, it's always cool to learn new tidbits and factoids about the in-game Wonders/units/techs/etc.
     
  20. Vericitas

    Vericitas Chieftain

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    hello,

    i really love this mod:goodjob: though i have to report a "little" bug:cry:
    i´ve build the beowulf wonder and after that i got a message.it says that it´s something missing.WON_SPLASH_BLDG_Beowulf.what does this mean and how can i fix it.

    thanks

    vericitas
     

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