Camels Invent Things: A Portugal Photojournal

[CrazyG]

Hello everyone,

As promised I'm taking photos of my current game and posting them with description. This time I'm Portugal. Portugal is a very cool civ, often overlooked. I wanted to play a game focused more on trade and diplomacy and less on war or religion, so she seemed like a good pick.

Settings are Deity, 8 civs, 16 city states, standard speed, on continents.

Ancient ruins disabled, events disabled, tech trading disabled, and strategic balance start.

Part 1
https://imgur.com/gallery/vgXBSxH

Part 1 is pretty short, I end it at pantheon decision. Let me know if you guys prefer imgur or posting to the forum, and what pantheon do you think is best for this situation?

 

[pandasnail]

Part 1 is pretty short, I end it at pantheon decision. Let me know if you guys prefer imgur or posting to the forum, and what pantheon do you think is best for this situation?

Since Progress, Portugal, and Coffee are all things that need early Culture, I probably would just take the revised God of All Creation and just plan to take India's religion when the time came. I mean, Mumbai is basically a free city for you (I guess I don't know that for sure on Standard Deity, but otherwise) and with Delhi right behind its prob the same. The worry really is Aztec getting them first.

I just hate having to rush trade for the plantation one. Of course, Portugal wants Trade more than anyone. Idk.

Personally I think posting images in spoiler tags here is better than imgur if its not more effort for you.

 

[pandasnail]

Forgot to ask, I thought the hold off on finishing a production thing didn't work on units? Doesn't the production vanish? No?

 

[CrazyG]

Forgot to ask, I thought the hold off on finishing a production thing didn't work on units? Doesn't the production vanish? No?

Nope, as long as you finish the unit before it becomes obsolete it stays there.

 

[CppMaster]

Let me know if you guys prefer imgur or posting to the forum

I prefer Imgur, it's a bit clearer that way.

Nope, as long as you finish the unit before it becomes obsolete it stays there.

In Civ V without Vox Populi, when you switch a unit production to sth else before it's finished, it starts loosing production progress after 10 turns, for buildings it's after 50 turns. Is it the case for Vox Populi also?

 

[CrazyG]

In Civ V without Vox Populi, when you switch a unit production to sth else before it's finished, it starts loosing production progress after 10 turns, for buildings it's after 50 turns. Is it the case for Vox Populi also?

I haven't tested it but I'm pretty sure I've left an archer unfinished for a long time, or a worker with 1-2 turns in it and I think it will still have it later.

 

[CppMaster]

I haven't tested it but I'm pretty sure I've left an archer unfinished for a long time, or a worker with 1-2 turns in it and I think it will still have it later.

I might have been unclear. You didn't lose all unit production progress in vanilla just 1 turn after 10 turn of switched production. You just started to losing it gradually.

There is a hammer decay after 10 turns for units and 50 turns for buildings. You can bypass production penalties if you reinsert hammers before the 10/50 turns mark. Usually good for units maintenance reduction or if you really want to be attacked .

But you really should inspect this thread for more and better infos :

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=400695

 

[StevenV]

Well, I am far from Deity, but on King/Emperor i'd choose: God of the Open Sky. It would give you +6-12 gold in a few turns. Also, it gives you some culture.

 

[Omen of Peace]

"Stored" hammers do decay after a while. I don't know the formula though.

 

[Owlbebach]

I wonder why you didn't settle on Hill to the right? I mean fresh water is good, but it is not a River, it is a Lake, which is much worse. I'd say that 1 extra hammer for the early game is better than Baths

Why did you take Animal Husbandry before Trade? It significantly reduces your chances of getting Petra, and you have plenty of tiles to work without Horses/Sheep. Though i'm not sure about culture, might be that you will not have enough policies in time, if you took this into accounts - i understand

In your particular case i'd say give up on Religion and take God of All Creation.
1) You have Monty and Gandhi as your neighbours, no way you get strong religion, especially with 2 shrines built so late.
2) Better to build army with GoAC and vassalize India.
3) You have Progress that snowballs and needs more production early on, it benefits from researching more techs and is very low on culture.
4) You'll have more chances of getting Petra which will snowball even harder for you
5) In case when Alexander attacks you with Hoplites - you'll have more production to defend

GoAC is by far the best choice here. Btw, you would have been in much better spot if you build Shrine first. On turn 24 you already know your neighbours, so you could have taken GoAC 10 turns earlier, so you'll be guaranteed to get Petra. I mean you should have played Shrine>Hunting>Pottery>Trade, take GoAC earlier and you'll be in much better spot. Probably leading 10-15 turns by turn 60 compared to where you will be now

 

[CrazyG]

I wonder why you didn't settle on Hill to the right? I mean fresh water is good, but it is not a River, it is a Lake, which is much worse. I'd say that 1 extra hammer for the early game is better than Baths

I think this is a really obvious settle in place.

Pros of moving to that hill
+1 hammer
More coastal tiles
I gain access to........an empty desert tile instead of a hill?

Cons
-1 food
Terrible starting tiles.
Fewer inland tiles (I'll already have more coast tiles than I need)
No baths
That empty desert becomes useless
Can't build a Fetoria on that hill (its a good spot, there was a decent probability it would be near fish)
I might settle on sheep or iron, as progress I'd prefer not to
-1 gold if I build Petra
Lose a turn of all yields

There is no way that hill is a faster start.
Can you explain why you would move there? It seems like a bad choice to me, there must be some advantage I'm not seeing.

Why did you take Animal Husbandry before Trade? It significantly reduces your chances of getting Petra, and you have plenty of tiles to work without Horses/Sheep. Though i'm not sure about culture, might be that you will not have enough policies in time, if you took this into accounts - i understand

My reasoning was greed. I felt pretty comfortable taking Petra. Both horses and cows were improved before the wonder finished, probably took a turn or so off.

 

[Owlbebach]

Can you explain why you would move there? It seems like a bad choice to me, there must be some advantage I'm not seeing.

I see two reasons:
1) Extra hammer from settling on hills, which i found more powerful than Baths that you are not going to build until turn 150
2) Feitorias. Moving to the right can give you more of them, and it is an incredibly powerful improvement. See red squares on the picture. You should place Feitorias there. Don't forget that they give +1 gold to adjacent Sea tiles, which means that 1 tile to the right will get +2 gold from 2 adjacent Feitorias

Spoiler Feitorias placement :

My reasoning was greed. I felt pretty comfortable taking Petra.

I wouldn't be so confident with Traditional Gandhi on desert near you. The only reason why he won't get it before you is that he may be dumb. Otherwise he can. Though as i said you might be lacking culture

 

[CrazyG]

I see two reasons:
1) Extra hammer from settling on hills
2) Feitorias. Moving to the right can give you more of them, and it is an incredibly powerful improvement. See red squares on the picture. You should place Feitorias there. Don't forget that they give +1 gold to adjacent Sea tiles, which means that 1 tile to the right will get +2 gold from 2 adjacent Feitorias

Spoiler Feitorias placement :

View attachment 501092

This is a really bad idea.

First of all, that Feitoria plan is easily spoiled by deer, sheep or iron appearing.
Second, I'm not sure I want to work a Feitoria in empty desert. +1 gold in a coastal tile 150 turns from now isn't worth delaying a turn for.
Third, my best starting tile is a 2 food empty coast? Compare to starting with that lake and coffee? Moving to the hill your grow to pop by turn 9, settling in place you grow turn 4. Settling in place builds the monument and shrine faster, even with 1 fewer hammer in the city, because it grows faster.

In fact, you actually have the same amount of hammer with flat city + lake as hill + coast.

On that hill your growth is terrible until borders grow (and they might grow to the amber first anyways).

 

[Owlbebach]

Second, I'm not sure I want to work a Feitoria in empty desert. +1 gold in a coastal tile 150 turns from now isn't worth delaying a turn for.

Ah, that was an empty desert you settled! That changes everything. I thought it was a Flood Plain (because of 3 food under the city). Now i see that it has no river. My bad, apologies

 

[CrazyG]

Ah, that was an empty desert you settled! That changes everything. I thought it was a Flood Plain (because of 3 food under the city). Now i see that it has no river. My bad, apologies

But you mentioned no river............

Even if it was a floodplain its still a bad move. That hill + floodplain will have the same hammers as flat city + lake, but -1 food. And you lose a turn moving.

 

[Owlbebach]

That hill + floodplain will have the same hammers as flat city + lake, but -1 food. And you lose a turn moving.

...until your first border growth, which happens in 10 turns. Anyway, i agree, i was wrong

 

[Paramecium]

I wonder why you didn't settle on Hill to the right? I mean fresh water is good, but it is not a River, it is a Lake, which is much worse. I'd say that 1 extra hammer for the early game is better than Baths

Sorry, but which hill do you mean?

Spoiler Which hill? :

You say the hill to the right?
Do you mean hill #1? I dont see any advantage in it.
Hill #3 might be better, but I think Lisbon is founded on plan desert. But big minus, you lose your sea access. But with settling in the eastern hills of #2 to #5, you might have production, but only settling directly on the amber would give you the food you need.

Starting the game I dont see any advantage moving to the western hills. But the biggest point is I think that @CrazyG wanted to settle on coast and without rerolling, I dont see how he could have done it better ...

 

[Owlbebach]

Sorry, but which hill do you mean?

I meant Hill #1, but it seems like i already admitted that i was wrong, didn't i?

 

[CrazyG]

...until your first border growth, which happens in 10 turns. Anyway, i agree, i was wrong

Its 20 turns till borders grow, in practice they will grow the turn after the monument finishes. What if your borders grow to the amber? Then you either work the amber and fall way behind on growth, or work a coastal tile and have less production. There is no situation where moving to that hill was a good idea. Early on, is +1 hammer for hill even better than +1 food for flat land? I don't think so, and its never worth spending a turn to get, you lose at least 5 hammers just taking that turn to move, and you delay all of your social policies and all of your techs for 1 turn.

(sorry for over explaining, this is intended as a resource for newer players though)

 

[Paramecium]

@Owlbebach: Sorry, I didnt reload the thread and just posted it. I can agree if it was a floodplain, more thought process would be wise. And I learned the hard way in VP, that planning Improvement placing before researching all techs for bonus ressources and iron/horses is very luckluster...