Can a nonsecular state be considered "rational"?

[downtown]

You should if you're going to talk about certain concepts intelligently. When we're talking about statecraft, rationality =/= common sense.

 

[Thorbal]

I've never bothered to consult others to determine what is rational, to me.

I did not intend to force my definition upon you. If it came across like that, I apologize ! I just wanted to point out that they can be considered rational from a sociological point of view, I did not expect you to share it, although using established definitions might be helpful.

 

[MobBoss]

I am going to say this just about as plain as I can, so I don't overstate it.

I have more than likely done more research and personal reflection regarding religion that yourself and ninety percent of the people on this planet.

To put it bluntly. I highly doubt it. But thats the nature of the internet. We all think we have done more than 90% of the planet in some capacity. And invaribly, that thought is usually wrong.

I am sure that many people would agree with. People used to think that the Earth was the center of the Universe, that it was flat, and that our Sun orbited us.

/shrug. All you have merely done is replaced man at the center as opposed to the Earth.

Well, I am certainly in the minority, but I don't know a single nation on this planet that has shown itself to be very rational, either when discussing its core population or the government.

Really? Cynical much?

 

[JohnRM]

To put it bluntly. I highly doubt it. But thats the nature of the internet. We all think we have done more than 90% of the planet in some capacity. And invaribly, that thought is usually wrong.



/shrug. All you have merely done is replaced man at the center as opposed to the Earth.



Really? Cynical much?

There is not a single nation on this planet that is sustainable. The core population of all of these nations are living in a way that is destroying the planet and our ability to survive, long-term. That doesn't seem very rational, to me.

 

[Agarwaen]

IMO just because they legitimize their government by religion doesn't mean that they will not act like others states. At most they will have more internal resistance to certain actions.

 

[Defiant47]

Religion is inherently irrational. A state that is based on something irrational can never hope to be rational.

 

[GenMarshall]

non-secular states can be rational
just as secular states can be irrational

 

[warpus]

I don't understand the question. What are we defining as "state" ?

 

[holy king]

since despite whatever you may think of religion (good, bad, necessity, unnecessary) it definitly is irrational to believe in god, a non-secular state is irrational by definition...

and yes, secular states can be irrational, but that is not the question...

 

[Ayatollah So]

Well, going by Mobby's map, I'd have to say that Argentina (nonsecular), for example, is a more rational State than North Korea (secular).

On the other hand, if the question was can a nonsecular state always become more rational by going secular, I'd say yes.

 

[Swedishguy]

Nonsecular states are narurally irrational. It would take one helluva effort to make them rational, and when they would just be border cases.

 

[DNK]

Religion is inherently irrational. A state that is based on something irrational can never hope to be rational.

Explain why all religion is irrational.

since despite whatever you may think of religion (good, bad, necessity, unnecessary) it definitly is irrational to believe in god, a non-secular state is irrational by definition...

Why is all belief in god irrational?

 

[holy king]

Explain why all religion is irrational.
Why is all belief in god irrational?

to keep it simple: because there is no reason for a god to exist...

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

to keep it simple: because there is no reason for a god to exist...

Something doesn't need a "reason" to exist, it either does or doesn't. Perhaps you mean there is no evidence that a god exists?

 

[DNK]

to keep it simple: because there is no reason for a god to exist...

No reason for anything to exist.

I've met plenty of rational, intelligent religious people.

Seems to me like being religious doesn't immediately turn someone into a raving lunatic...

 

[holy king]

Something doesn't need a "reason" to exist, it either does or doesn't. Perhaps you mean there is no evidence that a god exists?

that there is no evidence neednt be said, i mean there's no reason for the philosphical construct "god" to exist (for example for ethics you do not need god, for physics to describe the universe you do not need god)

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

I am not talking about God as a philosophical contstruct, but as a being. You can describe ethics and the universe quite well without acknowledging my existence (assuming, of course, that our current understandings of physics and ethic are correct). It is thus, according to your reasoning, irrational to think that I exist.

 

[holy king]

No reason for anything to exist.

I've met plenty of rational, intelligent religious people.

Seems to me like being religious doesn't immediately turn someone into a raving lunatic...

but horses do exist, unicorns apparently not...
one might argue that god is a philosophical necessity, i do not think so... and yes religious people are not automatically lunatics, that's a strawman, but they are irrational as far as their belief in god is concerned (and might be very rational concerning everything else)

 

[holy king]

I am not talking about God as a philosophical contstruct, but as a being. You can describe ethics and the universe quite well without acknowledging my existence.

well, for the being there is no evidence... god can only be a philosopical construct anyway, as long as there is no evidence of his existance...
but i guess this will lead nowhere, so...

 

[MobBoss]

There is not a single nation on this planet that is sustainable. The core population of all of these nations are living in a way that is destroying the planet and our ability to survive, long-term. That doesn't seem very rational, to me.

Now wait a second....because of global warming, every nation on earth is now 'irrational'?