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Can AI ranged Units move and then shoot?

Discussion in 'CivBE - General Discussions' started by BlackWizard, Oct 11, 2014.

  1. BlackWizard

    BlackWizard King

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    Can AI ranged Units move and then shoot or are they as useless as in civ V? Hope they fixed this
     
  2. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

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    I don't know, but I don't think anyone else does outside of firaxis either. (As you can guess by not having gotten a response in over 24 hours)
     
  3. cicero225

    cicero225 Warlord

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    Didn't an AI ranger do this in one of Madjinn's livestreams?
     
  4. Miravlix

    Miravlix King

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    AI units could step and shoot in CiV:BNW, they just rarely tried it.

    A mod made barb and AI nations step and shoot all the time.

    The current pre-release, seem to come with the un-modded CiV:BNW AI, so step and shooting is far to rare. Though keep in mind, the last thing they work on is the AI polish.

    MD's KT LP involve a huge sea battle that the AI lost horribad, because it moved it's entire fleet and didn't shoot, for two rounds, allowing MD to one shot them all, instead of him rightfully having lost all his fleet if the attack had been better executed.
     
  5. Doviello

    Doviello Warlord

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    The AI in Madjin's stream seem pretty... bad.

    There's about 6 naval fighters from 3 different factions shooting at one 1-tile-island station, but since there's no melee ships, and no AI had the idea to embark a land unit to finish the station, that station has been sitting on 0 hp for 100's of turns.

    A second station near one of Madjinn's cities is in the same situation, someone is shooting at it forever, and he's been happily trading with that station.

    Against PAC, the AI declared war and moved a whole fleet of ships within range but not a single shot was fired. Off course MAdjjins shot with as many ships as possible and two turns later the entire PAC fleet was sunk.

    The AI kept using low HP planes against Mad's fleet and getting intercepted, instead of letting them heal.

    Lots of embarked land units got sunk by city defense.

    Even on apolo difficulty, the combat Ai seem like a huge pushover. :( I'm super hyped for this game but watching that stream was disheartening.

    The land combat AI seems better, however. They actually move and shoot, and PAC took their city back several times.
     
  6. Magma_Dragoon

    Magma_Dragoon Reploid

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    He seems to be doing whatever he wants and winning. There are two possible explanations:

    The game is extremely well balanced, and a large number of strategies are viable

    Or, much more likely,
    Apollo is the new Deity
    Apollo is the new King :sad:
     
  7. Gamewizard

    Gamewizard Emperor

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    No more Atlantean LP's please...far too painful to watch. Makes me not want the game anymore.
     
  8. Cyberpunk85

    Cyberpunk85 Chieftain

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    I'm already going into this expecting the AI to be bad. It's really what you get with Civ games.
     
  9. AriochIV

    AriochIV Colonial Ninja

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    I did see a Ranger move into a city and then shoot, but I think that's a special case in which the AI cheats; I think I've seen siege units in Civ V do the same without setting up to fire. Also seen them fire and then move out of the city.

    Not trying to be rude, but I'd attribute that more to MadDjinn's careless tactical play than to any clever moves by the AI. He attacked with an inadequate force, mismanaged it, and still almost won the battle.
     
  10. Lucius_

    Lucius_ King

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    Are you talking about BNW? If you build a unit with a unit in the city, both units can attack and occupy the same space. Once you end your turn, the game will move the unit out of the city. When this happens with the AI it appears that they attack and then move out of the city. Which is what is happening but it's because of units being stacked.
     
  11. Lancor

    Lancor Prince

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    You mean turn based 4x games. Never have seen a good or even decent AI.
     
  12. AriochIV

    AriochIV Colonial Ninja

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    I know, but if the human player has more than one unit in the city, none of them is allowed to attack until all the rest move out of the city. The AI is allowed to attack first and then move out, so you will sometimes see multiple ranged units fire from within a city on the same turn.
     
  13. Nick31

    Nick31 Prince

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    I'm sad at this lack of AI improvement from CiV. It's very difficult to understand. I was pretty dismayed watching the AI on the hardest difficulty perform so poorly. I fear it may be several months before I can play this game. Lots of things to get excited about, but fears of a repeat of CiV initial release seem sadly justified.
     
  14. Acken

    Acken Deity

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    The AI as in civ5 has a tendency to want to move all its units in range before shooting. With the fact that boats stupidly one shot each other, it makes the fight horrible for an already crippled AI.

    Agree with some people feeling that the game (at Apollo) looks easy or on par with civ5 bnw at best (at least for someone beating civ5 deity). But let's be fair, civ5 AI (and BE AI by extension) cannot play water map.
     
  15. Tomice

    Tomice Passionate Smart-Ass

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    We'll probably get the BNW AI and that's it. There is little reason to assume it has gotten worse, at least land combat follows the same rules. They have also gotten rid of all problematic unit classes like Keshiks (hit-and-run), all are pretty conservative movement-wise.

    There might be a problem with naval combat because melee ships have been removed, and the AI might still think a ship-only force can take a city. The apparent bug with ships one-shooting each other also aggravates the problem.
     
  16. BlackWizard

    BlackWizard King

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    Well I had attacked multiple times from my city with 2 ranged units. When turn ends other of them is teleported away. If both are ranged they can both attack. If they are melee different think
     
  17. I_pity_the_fool

    I_pity_the_fool Warlord

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    I speculate that the reason why the manticore has one move and a range of two is that firaxis wanted to avoid the ineffectiveness of the handaxe, which had two moves and a range of one. Now the AI unit can move or shoot, but has the range to at least make this harmful.
     
  18. SupremacyKing

    SupremacyKing Prince

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    I got the impression as well. I realize that Maddjinn is a grand master of civ but still his LPs just do not make "deity" level look challenging in the slightest.
     
  19. Magma_Dragoon

    Magma_Dragoon Reploid

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    BE will have multiplayer actually working when it is released. I think it will be fun to go up against humans before a metagame emerges.
     
  20. Strategist83

    Strategist83 King

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    ... and this is pretty much why I think it's fair to call BE a 'reskin'. Obviously, that is a huge stretch - there is clearly going to be a lot of new content in BE: New ideas, new artwork, music and so on. But ultimately? It's just Civ V all over again, with all the same mistakes. And without Firaxis dealing with the stuff that really matters, because actually doing so would require actual effort. Much easier to just recreate Civ V in a sci-fi setting with new artwork and sell that same game for the 4th time now and just rake in the money from the huge amount of people purchasing the game.

    I'm not saying you shouldn't buy BE. I will do so, myself. However, if you just keep accepting Firaxis putting out their half-assed games, we'll never see real quality.

    State of gaming is pitiful, really, even in near-2015 - really amazing, in a bad way. It isn't just Firaxis, of course - if you've played the recent Endless Legend from Amplitude I'm sure you've noticed the quality (lack thereof) of their AI. Obviously, creating a genuinely challenging AI is a monumental task but developers are getting away with far too much. It's clearly going to work for Firaxis putting out yet another game with abysmal AI and severe balance issues and once again $$$ in on it big time.
     

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