Can an American please answer a question?

[Puck Nutty]

It seems that illegal immigration is becoming more of a hot button topic this year than it has in the past (what with elections and all). Consequently, a lot of politicians, both local and federal, have been making noise about what they want to do to deal with the issue.

This raises an issue of logic in my mind. Immigration seems like a federal issue, period. After all, we are talking about the laws that determine who may or may not enter the country, not individual states. If states are allowed to make their own immigration laws, does that not potentially infringe on every Americans right to free movement throughout the country? I don't think I would like the idea of having to carry my passport every time I decided to take a roadtrip to the next state over (if I lived in the US, that is).

Anyway, it seems illogical for anyone to insist that immigration laws be decided locally. Defending and defining the country's border is a federal matter, by definition, isn't it?

 

[Formaldehyde]

But what do you do when the president is an un-American Kenyan Muslim socialist, even though most of his policies are virtually identical to a true-blooded Christian American war hero like GWB who defended the skies of Texas from the communists during the Vietnam War?

It is just more partisan nonsense.

 

[JollyRoger]

Since deportations are up under the Obama administration, state and local governments are of course naturally worried that the Obama administration is creating an artificially low free market supply of labor in order to benefit the union thugs that support Obama.

 

[Ajidica]

Anyway, it seems illogical for anyone to insist that immigration laws be decided locally. Defending and defining the country's border is a federal matter, by definition, isn't it?

While it is a federal matter primarily, very little prevents the states from augmenting the federal regulations (such as stepping up border patrols). Outside of a few very specific areas, states can run programs that cover the same ground as federal programs as long as they do not directly contradict federal programs (for example, Minnesota has a state-run welfare system in addition to the federal welfare system).
However, with the Arizona immigration laws, the issue is that they violate several civil rights and bypass federal procedures, which will get it struck down because in a case of state law directly contradicting federal law, the state law will get struck down unless the federal law is found to be unconstitutional.

 

[Puck Nutty]

All jokes (and sarcasm) aside, we know that people are willing to look the other way when illegal laws benefit them in some way (Defense of Marriage Act, for example). What I don't get is why this whole thing hasn't been cut off at the knees?

I mean, would Oregon be allowed to shut down all of it's military bases because they don't want them? Is that a state right as well? I don't think so, as national defense is a federal issue. So is immigration. illegal or otherwise.

@Ajidica: I guess that's what I can't wrap my head around. Doesn't allowing local jurisdictions to alter federal laws seems to go against the whole definition of "federal"? I respect that some issues need to be dealt with on a local level, but once something has been dealt with on a federal level, changes should be made on that same level (in my mind anyway).

 

[timtofly]

It seems that illegal immigration is becoming more of a hot button topic this year than it has in the past (what with elections and all). Consequently, a lot of politicians, both local and federal, have been making noise about what they want to do to deal with the issue.

This raises an issue of logic in my mind. Immigration seems like a federal issue, period. After all, we are talking about the laws that determine who may or may not enter the country, not individual states. If states are allowed to make their own immigration laws, does that not potentially infringe on every Americans right to free movement throughout the country? I don't think I would like the idea of having to carry my passport every time I decided to take a roadtrip to the next state over (if I lived in the US, that is).

Anyway, it seems illogical for anyone to insist that immigration laws be decided locally. Defending and defining the country's border is a federal matter, by definition, isn't it?

If they put up check points at state lines, it means that the citizens have lost their democratic privileges and who would want to come to the US then?

When you see states flexing their muscle, it just means they resent the fact that the Fed no longer respects their rights.

 

[The_Tyrant]

Immigration should be handled by the States if the federal government refuses to do it's job of enforcing the border.

 

[Patroklos]

The states generally bare the financial burden of illegal immigration when the Feds refuse to do their job or do it incorrectly.

For instance, most schools are financed through local taxes, something illegals rarely contribute to outside of sales taxes. Some rural area schools are literally bankrupted due to this.

 

[wilycoyote]

Immigration should be handled by the States if the federal government refuses to do it's job of enforcing the border.

So if Texas really wants to invade Mexico, but the federal government doesn't, then Texas should just go ahead and unilaterally invade Mexico?

Immigration is a federal task. If you don't like what they are doing, vote someone in that will do something you like.

 

[Save_Ferris]

But what do you do when the president is an un-American Kenyan Muslim socialist, even though most of his policies are virtually identical to a true-blooded Christian American war hero like GWB who defended the skies of Texas from the communists during the Vietnam War?

It is just more partisan nonsense.

I'll bet less than 10% of the population thinks that. Sadly, it is that 10% which is taken by Europe to be "America".

I, for one, believe it should be decided federally. A lot of things are screwed up with states, which are acting less like dependent provinces (what they were meant to be) and more like countries. We're called the United States for a reason.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Your sanity has no place in this debate.

 

[Formaldehyde]

I'll bet less than 10% of the population thinks that. Sadly, it is that 10% which is taken by Europe to be "America".

Is that right?

Over 85% of Alabama and Mississippi Republicans Think Obama Is or Could Be A Muslim

In Alabama, 45% of the state’s Republicans thought that President Obama is Muslim. Fourteen percent correctly identified the president as a Christian, and 41% said that they weren’t sure whether President Obama was a Muslim or a Christian. Forty nine percent of Alabama’s Republican women, and forty two percent of the state’s men thought that Obama is a Muslim. Fifty five percent of Alabama Republicans over the age of 65 also got President Obama’s faith wrong.

Republicans in Alabama looked completely enlightened on the issue of Obama’s faith compared to their counterparts in Mississippi, where 52% of the state’s Republicans thought that President Obama is a Muslim. Only 12% of Mississippi Republicans correctly identified Obama as a Christian, and 36% weren’t sure whether Obama is a Muslim or a Christian. Fifty three percent of Republican men in the state, and fifty one percent of women think that Obama is a Muslim. Fifty five percent of Mississippi Republicans over age 65 thought Obama is a Muslim. Only 4% of senior GOP voters in the state correctly identified Obama as a Christian.

The reason why the Republican presidential candidates and the conservative media continue to question President Obama’s faith is because there is a sizable portion of the Republican electorate holding on to the false belief that President Obama is not a Christian. In short, the Republican presidential candidates are echoing the beliefs of GOP voters and giving them what they want.

Where did Republican voter get these beliefs?

Most likely this incorrect belief came from Fox News, talk radio, and other right wing outlets. Older Republican voters in each state were most likely to think that President Obama is a Muslim, and this same demographic makes up the bulk of the audience for Fox News. (Remember, Fox News has the oldest viewers on all of television.) The conservative media, led by Fox, has fueled the Obama is a Muslim hysteria of the uninformed right for over four years now.

Obama Muslim Rumors Persist Among Illinois Republicans: 39 Percent Believe President Is Muslim

Poll: 46% of GOP thinks Obama's Muslim

Many of those who think they need to take the federal law into their own hands under Obama, when they had no such desire at all to do so under GWB, think Obama is a Muslim. And I bet a surprising number also think he is a socialist.

The stereotypes about ignorant Americans that many Europeans believe is based on numerous such facts.

 

[Ajidica]

For instance, most schools are financed through local taxes, something illegals rarely contribute to outside of sales taxes. Some rural area schools are literally bankrupted due to this.

If anything, that suggests local taxes are an unreliable way to finance public schools.

 

[NickyJ]

So if Texas really wants to invade Mexico, but the federal government doesn't, then Texas should just go ahead and unilaterally invade Mexico?

Immigration is a federal task. If you don't like what they are doing, vote someone in that will do something you like.

There's a slight difference between keeping criminals out of a country and invading a country.

 

[rugbyLEAGUEfan]

Can an American please answer a question?

I generally find that extracting an opinion from an American is not an overly arduous task

 

[Formaldehyde]

There's a slight difference between keeping criminals out of a country and invading a country.

There is no difference at all in regard to the fact that they are both federal matters.

 

[JollyRoger]

The states generally bare the financial burden of illegal immigration when the Feds refuse to do their job or do it incorrectly.

For instance, most schools are financed through local taxes, something illegals rarely contribute to outside of sales taxes. Some rural area schools are literally bankrupted due to this.

Actually schools are primarily funded by property taxes and if the illegals are paying rent, their landlord is paying property tax from the rent proceeds.

 

[downtown]

For instance, most schools are financed through local taxes, something illegals rarely contribute to outside of sales taxes. Some rural area schools are literally bankrupted due to this.

Property taxes are passed along to the renter, and local property taxes are the dominant revenue stream for schools. A district could be bankrupted if property values were so low that they couldn't raise enough to educate each student, but thats a problem with all poor communities, regardless of paperwork status. The only way your scenario would happen is if a district used a local income tax instead of a property one...and that's pretty rare.

EDIT: ex-post with JR. The constitution and the courts have been pretty clear that immigration is the domain of the feds.

 

[squadbroken]

If anything, that suggests local taxes are an unreliable way to finance public schools.

The way the USA handles vital public interests like education and health care is just beyond baffling to me.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Actually schools are primarily funded by property taxes and if the illegals are paying rent, their landlord is paying property tax from the rent proceeds.

They also have federal and state withheld from their meager wages in many cases. If the employer isn't withholding taxes, they are guilty of violating those laws as well.

It is beyond ridiculous to not educate the children of undocumented immigrants, which is again why no state has ever tried to not do so no matter how "red" it was.