Can anyone create a patch or a cheat that creates CHEMICAL or BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS? ...

[JoseM]

for example in Call to Power we had biological attacks, u had to send a unit and that unit creates a plague in that city and for that the city loses citizens... also what about a chemical or biological missile? why didnt FIRAXIS added this kind of weapon? so anyone good creating pacthes or cheats or stuff like that would be able to create something like that?

I dont mean about moderation games, i mean about a patch that can be used even after the game has started... so can anyone do this?

 

[hzm]

why didnt FIRAXIS added this kind of weapon?

They wanted "a family game" as Dan of Firaxis said. They just forgot about communism, Moa Tse Tung, nuclear weapons, war in general, slavery, the entire Aztec civilization, etc.

 

[JoseM]

Originally posted by hzm


They wanted "a family game" as Dan of Firaxis said. They just forgot about communism, Moa Tse Tung, nuclear weapons, war in general, slavery, the entire Aztec civilization, etc.

yeah... about communism it has killed more than facism and fundamentalism all over the last century...

Mao Tze Tung killed more people than Stalin or Hitler....

Nuclear weapons are worst than chemical or biological weapons...


So it seems really hipocrit that they didnt included fundamentalism or terrorist acts in the game, maybe it was because of the SEP 11 attacks, but this is just a game, why eliminate fundamentalism or terrorist attacks if this is just a game... also communism has made more damage to the world than facism.. look there is still communism in north korea and cuba... communism is still there killing people... and mao tse tung? lol why didnt FIRAXIS included adolf hitler or stalin... mao fills the same category of sickness and brutality as them.

 

[Klasanov]

What would you use them for?

Chemical weapons would kill population, but nukes already do that quite well. Biological weapons could spread disease, killing population... Wait, we already have biological agents as a weapon via espionage).

They probably didn't put chemical or biological weapons because nukes are enough.

If they made chemical weapons, it would only kill population. WHich is unneccessary, as we have nukes that do that. Biological weapons could be cool to use in that they could slowly kill population each turn for a set number of turns or something (Maybe less if ther city had a hospital?)

 

[Klasanov]

Maybe because Hitler and Stalin are more well known?

Seriously, Stalin killed 5 times more people than Hitler did, yet Hitler is often the condemned one for killing all those people, even though Stalin killed way more.

 

[JoseM]

Originally posted by Klasanov
What would you use them for?

Chemical weapons would kill population, but nukes already do that quite well. Biological weapons could spread disease, killing population... Wait, we already have biological agents as a weapon via espionage).

They probably didn't put chemical or biological weapons because nukes are enough.

If they made chemical weapons, it would only kill population. WHich is unneccessary, as we have nukes that do that. Biological weapons could be cool to use in that they could slowly kill population each turn for a set number of turns or something (Maybe less if ther city had a hospital?)

because if you have a nuclear war then a lot of civilizations that are not in a war alliance with u then they will declare the war to u... also a nuclear war acelerates the global warming and the whole world turns into a desert...

Chemical or biological weapons could be used in terrorists attacks or launch them inside missiles to ur enemies without the other nations getting mad at u... like a normal and conventional attack..
for example when u attack ur enemy with a tank the neutral civ doesnt care.... but when u attack ur enemy with a nuclear weapon the neutral civ declares war against u...

I suggest about a chemical biological missile that when u launch it then the neutral civ wont delcare war or get mad at u... and like u said the chemical bio weapon can decrease citizens and at the same time wont cause a global warming effect... it can be really useful.

 

[JoseM]

Originally posted by Klasanov
Maybe because Hitler and Stalin are more well known?

Seriously, Stalin killed 5 times more people than Hitler did, yet Hitler is often the condemned one for killing all those people, even though Stalin killed way more.

because Stalin was allied with the allies and some famous leader said that the winners are the one who write the history... thats why hitler is the bad guy even if mao and stalin murdered more people than hitler.... in other words stalin was in the western allies side against hitler... and hitler was the bad guy... so is written in the history that hitler is the enemy and the bad guy, but stalin is not condemned because he was allied with those who wrote the history (USA and Great Britain)... u see now?

Also mao is not condemned because he didnt create a world war... anyways mao had a war against the western allies in the korean war... but i repeat those who wrote the history wrote that hitler was worst than stalin or mao...even if mao killed more.

 

[hzm]

What about the Japanese though? Didn't they kill a lot more people than the Germans? But it seems (at least in America) that they always talk about the holocaust, as opposed the rape of Nanking.

 

[D. Boon's Ghost]

In this day and age, in any day and age, dropping chemical weapons would certainly be just as bad - from a reputation standpoint, than nukes.
The Germans were villians during WWI with their Mustard Gas, Iraqi was 'evil' for using biological weapons against Iran and their own people in the early 80's, America was even somewhat darkened with their use of Napalm in Vietnam.

Sorry, but I do not like the idea. As has been mentioned, this is not a real world simulation. It is a game.
When playing, I do not like to think about who was worse Mao or Stalin...or how better to fry another nation realistically. I play to distract myself from the outside horrors as best I can. Introducing more of them may be going a tad too far.

Of course this is my lowly opinion. Did not mean to rant.

 

[Cunobelin Of Hippo]

Moderator Action: This isn't the place. Discuss creation, or lackthereof, of the proposed units, not the moral issues associated with them. That's Off-Topic material.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Klasanov]

Um, wouldn't the moral aspects be in this topic too? Because the moral aspects of the weapons would determine the balance of who would declare war on you or not.

But I think nukes would be much worse than chemical weapons. Nukes kill a lot of people, injure more, and topple hundreds of buildings, and then slowly kill more people via radiation (An interesting addition, I think, would be radiation that could go around and randomly strike a city or a group of cities every so often or so).

The only thing I could see is the chemical weapon as an addition to a missile (We already have biological attacks as a spy mission, and those only kill a certain population, much like the chem would do. Maybe if they changed that to a per turn or something). Not sure the effect of world opinion it would leave, but I imagine it would be pretty bad, though probably not as bad as using a nuke.

sending an armada of tanks to crush enemies can actually contribute to world opinion shifting against you. My first game with Civ 3, I sent a bunch of Samurai to the Persians, got them killed, sent another one, killed again, then sued for peace and tried my hand at the Zulus. Before long, Russia and Babylon had signed an MPP, or military alliance, or something like that. I think a military alliance against me or an MPP actually happened when I attacked Persia.

Granted, trying to move into Babylon after failed invasions into Zululand wasn't the best course of action (Not that it mattered, they never bother to attack you back), and trying to bully everyone didn't exactly help.

 

[mizaq]

what the hell are you talking about, "we already have biological attacks via espionage?" no we don't, what game are you playing?

 

[JoseM]

Originally posted by mizaq
what the hell are you talking about, "we already have biological attacks via espionage?" no we don't, what game are you playing?

it seems u never played civ 2, in civ 2 ur spy or the ai spy could poison the water supply of the city, thats a bio attack.

 

[JoseM]

Originally posted by D. Boon's Ghost


Sorry, but I do not like the idea. As has been mentioned, this is not a real world simulation. It is a game.
When playing, I do not like to think about who was worse Mao or Stalin...or how better to fry another nation realistically. I play to distract myself from the outside horrors as best I can. Introducing more of them may be going a tad too far.

im not saying that this game should be 100% real world, i was just giving an idea to add more things to the game and make it more fun.... yeah u like to distract urself from the outside horrors and at the same time they put mao as the great leader of china, considerating that mao murdered more people than stalin or hitler... but this wasnt my point... my point was about adding bio or chemical weapons and make the game more fun...

also add terrorists attack... all that stuff was avaible in civ 2.... but civ 3 messed it up eliminating that.

 

[Klasanov]

covert actions: Plant disease: Your spy can be ordered to poison the water supply of one of your rival's cities. A successful attempt reduces the target city's population.

Sounds enough like a bio attack to me.

 

[Klasanov]

Who said he has to have China in the games he plays?

And I doubt just having Mao in the game really contributes so much to it being so much of the real world or whatever.

 

[JoseM]

Originally posted by Klasanov
Who said he has to have China in the games he plays?

And I doubt just having Mao in the game really contributes so much to it being so much of the real world or whatever.

what u mean? whats ur point ?

i dont give a **** if mao or hitler are in the game... the thing i said about mao was an opinion.... also thats not the point of this thread, plz stay on topic.

 

[Klasanov]

My point is that just because Mao is in the game doesn't mean he has to play as them, or have him in the game, as he wants to distract himself from the horrors of real life (Which he said, and you counted that with Mao being in the game). (Though, whether or not he sees Mao as something that gives a freakish view to the real world and death and whatnot, I have no idea. So why are we even discussing this?)

My point is shut up about Mao. You've said he's killed more people than Stalin and Hitler once already, so there's no need to say it again. Besides, I don't think it has much to do with the real world or whatnot in the game.

 

[mizaq]

Don't get smug. I know there was bio attacks in previous games, but this is a Civ3 board and Klasanov is talking like you can do bio attacks in Civ3. I think he is the one getting confused, not me. You mentioned CtP in your first post and then I think he incorporated that into Civ3.

 

[Klasanov]

I said you can do bio attacks via the poison water supply option for spy missions. Although you could also use chemical weapons that way, it depends on your imagination. It doesn't even neccessarily have to be from a water source anyway (If you decided to imagine it came from something else).

I don't think I'm confused. Although chemical and bioloigical missiles would kind of cool to use, actually.