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Can anyone win from this?

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by azzaman333, Feb 12, 2006.

  1. azzaman333

    azzaman333 meh

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    I'm in my 5th game on emperor and i think im getting the hang of it. In this game though, i was dealt a cruel world, where i started with the Iroquois on my island, and Carthage on the neighbouring island.I've killed off Iroquois, and I i've met the other continent, where the dutch are about an age ahead of me. I personally cant see a way to win from here, but if anyone would like to try the save is attached. Also, If you could give me some tips on how i am going (other than being so far behind in tech) i'd like to here.
    azzaman
     

    Attached Files:

  2. vmxa

    vmxa Chieftain

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    I only took a small peek, so nothing concrete to say. I do wonder why you did not go for very tight spacing when you seen you were on a small island and not alone?

    Not sure why you are researching PP as you are going to be able to get contacts on your own soon enough. I would rather have gotten Knights as they will do a better job of fighting right now. Also you don't have horses, so I would want to build some knights while my deal for horses was in place.

    You need to get an army or two to make any real headway. I would like to see a few cats to ping ships and landing parties as well.
     
  3. vmxa

    vmxa Chieftain

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    I am not sure how much stock to put into this strat, but here is a method from the board. I have edited it a bit to make it a bit easier to read.

    HOW TO WIN ON DEITY BUILDER-STYLE, STEP-BY-STEP.

    This article is for C3C v 1.22

    This article is devised to help deity Noobs or deity wannabes to win confidently on this level as builders. I take for granted you already know basic concepts such as settler-factories, REXing, Prebuilds, reputation, attitude, Golden Age etc … if you don’t, look them up in the strat articles section at Poly or in the War Academy at CFC.


    On Deity the AI has a series of “play balancing” bonuses from the start, such as:

    - They start with an extra settler (their biggest advantage IMHO)
    - with 8 defensive units
    - with 4 offensive units
    - two workers
    - they have a cost factor of 60%.
    - two-turn anarchy
    - additional free support per city
    - AI-AI trade bonus of 170

    Is it humanly possible to overcome these bonuses? Yes, the AI remains as dumb no matter the difficulty level.

    Winning as a Warmonger on Deity is a more daunting task and requires a player to be very skilled and know all the nooks and crannies of the game inside-out. So we’ll leave that type of play style to them.

    However, winning Deity focusing as a builder is very feasable and only a matter of practice. Anyone can attain it. I’ll explain.

    I. Victory type sought: UNs vote or SS victory.

    II. The world settings:

    1. You’ll choose huge pangaea (not archipiélago) worlds with 60% water, we want max land. The larger the world the more you'll profit from it being a builder.
    2. No barbarians and hence, no huts to pop as they benefits the AI more than you.
    3. AI agressiveness to the maximum, so as to profit as a war scavenger.
    4. 15 randomly generated AI civs. the more the merrier.
    5. Accelerated production off.
    6. Random seed preserved.
    7. All victory conditions enabled (except the Wonder Victory)

    III. Picking the right civ:

    The civ must be chosen carefully.

    A. TRAITS:

    I would advise for it to have the agricultural trait . This trait is the most powerful in C3C much as the industrious was back in PtW. Growth is –almost- everything, as highlighted in many articles.

    As a second trait you will want it to be either: scientific, commercial or industrious.

    You are not interested in playing an expansionist civ because it’s a pangaea world, you’re bound to meet them anyway sending your warriors as scouts. Plus there are no huts to pop which always seem to be more helpful for the AI. This trait is only useful during the REXing phase and you’re looking for a trait that’ll be useful through out the whole game.

    You are not interested in a seafaring civ because this is not an archipiélago map, it’s pangaea. Forget the Lighthouse.

    You are not interested in the religious trait because you are only going to change governments once in the game: from despotism to republic. Plus you are not aiming for a culture victory with this strat. A cultural vic on deity is more difficult and isn't the point of this article.

    This is a builder-style game, so obviously the military trait won't be suitable. Perhaps back in PtW when GMLs could rush GWs I would've changed my mind. But in C3C only SGLs can rush GWs and it's the scientific trait that'll be useful.


    You want to be scientific: because you may build cheap libraries and above all you'll want your free tech when entering a new era so you can shop it around. You even have a 5% chance of spawning a SGL being the first to discover a tech. Useful trait all game round, probably the best second trait for this strat besides agri.

    You want to be commercial: because at Deity you’ll need all the gold you can to trade. It’s useful through-out all the game.

    You may want to be industrious: to build things at a faster rate. Again, a useful trait all game through.

    Ideal civs for this builder strat:

    Sumerians, Iroquois, Netherlands, Greeks(*) and any other agri civ.

    (*)= o.k. they are not agri but they are good to play with. They’ll prove an additional challenge.

    B. For it’s UUs:

    On Emperor or below you’re probably more interested in an offensive unit whereas in deity a defensive one is more suitable (from a builder standpoint). The very cheap and early enkidu warrior, the swiss-mercenary, the greek hoplite all suit their purpose, being the MW the exception as a fast offensive UU.

    However, I must point out that the AI rates you military according to your offensive power. So the AI will rate more highly two warriors with a combined attack of 2 (one each) than a regular spearman with attack 1. So a builder player should really be building offensive units and not deffensive ones so as to keep the aggressive AI at bay. That’s why your military adviser says you are weak in comparison to other civs because it doesn’t count as much your huge defensive army, amongst other issues.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Step-by-step guide to win on Deity builder-style:


    1. In the Ancient Age you’ll build two or three warriors as scouts to explore the map and meet other civs. You may want to build two canoes or galleys to go on exploring on opposite directions as well (less advisable). You want to meet as many civs as possible once you have the GL built.

    2. You’ll build a granary in your capital. Your capital will act as a settler factory. Starting as an agri civ you’ll start on a river and next to some food bonus (wheat, sugar, banana, cows). If you happen to start on a floodplain it may be not necessary to build a granary in that city. You’ll want two or three cities with granaries.

    3. You must start to REX asap. You’ll build warriors (no spearmen), workers and settlers. You ought to have two workers for every city you have on average. You will not escort your settlers. It doesn’t matter If some cities are ungarrisoned. The AI is also busy expanding rapidly and covering all the land still available. Pump out those settlers!!

    4. You ought to have between 8-11 cities once the REXing phase is over. It’s ok if you can’t build the FP, no sweat. Even if you build it in the Industrial Age after some war you can still win. You can win this game with ten cities. Don't worry if your city tiles are overlapping with one another, it's only normal at this level of gameplay. Forget the idea of having a 21 radii tile city perfectly used and no overlapping; that only spells disaster at Deity. Get used to living in cramped quarters. Real estate is overpriced!

    5. Having the AI at its most aggressive setting, frequent wars will be unleashed. Just make sure to stay out of them and have settlers ready to fill in the gaps of the razed cities. You are taking advantage of the AI way of acting by doing the opposite and cashing in on that tendency, whether it be wars, derided techs or whatever.

    6. On your best/most productive city, normally the capital where the palace is, you’ll mine most tiles, if you have a cow that’d be great. Start roading the food bonus tile, then mine it, then move to the river tiles to get that extra gold bonus the sooner the better. Whip settlers if required.

    7. You’ll bee-line to Literature. Your wonder city should reach size 10 at least 8 turns before you discover Literature and size 12 when building the GLB. The best prebuild canidate is often a palace. That does not work for the capitol, so you will need either another safe wonder or some other structure. Normally you wil not have a wonder to house the shields and most structures are quite small. Masonry is required for a palace. Join workers to the wonder city if necessary to bring it to size 12. You will need to be able to have 6 happy faces for size 12.

    8. Once you discover Literature put the science slider to zero and have it like that until you learn Education.

    9. You will build the Great Library. It takes some practice to do it, so be sure you build it. Don’t conquer it, this is a builder-style game. You’ll do the bashing later on in the game, believe me. This is the only Ancient Age wonder you’ll waste your precious time and resources on. It's well-worth it.

    10. You’ll trade your way through to Writing once the techs start pouring in. You’ll build embassies with ALL civs, with your immediate neighbours first. You’ll sign RoP with ALL of them. You give techs, gold, luxuries whatever is reasonably necessary in exchange. You do this to avoid unwanted wars. The AI will not attack you, normally, with RoP signed. Providing you keep up your good reputation and stay true to your deals. If you can trade workers from other civs, just do it, the earlier on you do it the more they’ll get slowed down in building infrastructure and it'll hurt them, specially if they have the industrialised trait.

    11. You will trade techs for lump sum or gpt If you can. Don’t forget to haggle always. GPT is your aim so as to make them broke and slow their fast-paced research rate. The more gold they trade you, the less they'll have for research. It will be YOU who will be doing all the research from the early Middle Ages onwards and cashing on it.

    12. You will acquire all the luxuries you can. Being pangaea you don’t have to wait until Navigation to get all of them, from the early Middle Ages you ought to have access to all of them. Your luxury slider should be at zero typically all along the game, except in the initial REXing phase and in the odd war or so. Build granaries, libraries, marketplaces.

    13. You must change governments to Republic as soon as it is available and stick to it untill you win the game.

    14. You musn’t start any wars until you have Military Tradition. You will give into all AI demands, be it gold, maps or techs. Yeah, yeah it’s crap but learn how to kneel first.

    15. In the Middle Ages trade your free tech around if you're scientific (it will normally be Feudalism; gift in, if neccessary, other scientific AIs into the new era so as to trade for their free techs). It's difficult to stop the wonder cascade in the Middle Ages, soforget it.
    Once you learn Education, and the GLB becomes obsolete, you will trigger your Golden Age with your UU the very next turn If possible. I always choose some close feable neighbour. You will have amassed by now at least twenty horses which you’ll upgrade to cavalry. This is a defensive war, don’t play offensive. You’ll make that other civ declare war on you making them mad and asking them to withdraw their troops from your land. Be sure your RoP agreement has finished with that target civ beforehand, don’t renew it. You will sign a military alliance (MA) with all civs against your targeted foe. You cannot risk a war with more than one civ. Be sure to spawn some MGL's so as to start the Military Academy. You may later use the Armies as prebuilds or as a deterrent to other aggressive civs. Don’t sign peace until twenty turns have gone by so as not to get a reputation hit with the other civs you've signed the MA. Remember you are aiming for a diplo win or SS, your reputation should remain flawless until the UN vote if you choose this victory type.

    16. Use your GA to build banks (universities should be rushed if you are scientific), factories etc. Don’t waste your time building military units, you’ll have plenty of time for that later on. Using your GA and combining it with all the gold you will have saved up with your zero research due to the GLB will enable you to research at a maximum rate now of 90-100%. I advise reading DaveMcW's article on AI's Favorite Techs to learn what monopoly techs you should be researching and trading for in your game.

    17. You ought to have saved a fair amount of gold already. Start researching at the max possible (90-100%) techs that the AI will disregard first in the Middle Ages such as in the top end of the tech-tree: Monotheism, Banking, Economy. You may even start a prebuild on Adam Smith’s. Trade these monopoly techs to all and be sure you get gpt. You want to make them broke. With all the gold you’ve saved up during the effects of the GLB and with the added boost of your GA you ought to be racing ahead technologically. Make sure they learn Banking asap (even gifting it to ALL AIs) so they build banks asap and have all their gold funneled to you through smart trading of techs. By the end of the Middle Ages you ought to have 10,000 gold.

    18. In the Industrial Age your free tech will normally be Nationalism. Gift in, if neccessary, other scientific AI's into the new era so as to trade for their free techs. Go for Steam Power, Industrialisation, Medicine, Sanitation (build or rush hospitals in every city, you are agri don’t forget it), Electricity, Scientific Method. You’ll have a prebuild on ToE. Build it and choose as your two free techs Atomic Theory and Electronics. You’ll also have a prebuild for Hoovers Dam. You may not have realized it yet, but the game is pretty much over now at this stage once you build this Great Wonder. Make sure they learn Corporation asap (even gifting it to all AIs) so they can all build Stock Exchanges asap and have all their gold funneled to you through smart trading of techs.
    You’ll start a well-timed prebuild aiming for the United Nations. Trade all these techs around assuring you will complete the great wonders. You might be tempted to steal techs once you trade for Espionage, but If you are using this builder-strategy properly there's just no need to resort to stealing techs. It will be you that is the most technologically advanced civ in the game, so there'll be hardly any techs at all to steal. You ought to have now around 20,000 gold at the end of the Industrial Age. It’s fairly normal to strike deals for up to as much as 320 gpt. Be careful, the AI might go broke (specially if it’s a Warmonger civ such as the Zulus or Aztecs) and declare war to stop paying all together. You ought to be raking in approx 2,000 gpt from your cities and anywhere between 1,000 and 2,000 gpt from the AI civs in your game. Your science rate will be at 90-100% and your luxury slider at zero (if you have 8 luxs) or 10%. You can easily change your game from builder to warmonger at this stage, but you'll risk losing the UN vote.

    19. You enter the Modern Age. Very rarely do they give you Computers as your free tech being scientific. It will normally be either Ecology, Fission or Rocketry. Gift a scientific civ into the Modern Age if neccesary so as to trade their free tech. Shop it around with all the others. You must build the UNs. Research the lower end of the tech tree: Computers (have a prebuild for SETI), Miniaturisation (prebuild for Internet), then go for whatever suits you. Steal techs safely for 5,500 gold. The AIs will pay dearly in such a huge map for a Modern Age tech. I’ve been paid as much as 47,500 gold for Computers lump sum (it has a wonder associated to it). Be sure you haven’t finished the wonder when you shop it around because that’ll diminish its face value. Avoid at all costs the Wonder Cascade of Manhattan Proyect, SETI, UN, Internet. Delay if neccesary by one turn the trade so as to be sure they don’t build the wonder before you. A human player should have no trouble building all Industrial and Modern Age wonders with the help of well-timed prebuilds at Deity.

    20. Choose between an SS or Diplomatic victory. Typically, you ought to finish the game around the XIV-XV centuries for a diplo win and XVI or later for a SS victory in a huge pangaea deity map. You should end up with, at least, 40,000 gold stashed in your bank account (even If you've been cash-rushing units and improvements). It's Builder Power!


    Takes around 25-40 hours to complete.


    The point was to always surge ahead techwise and sell them the monopoly techs I discovered hampering their own research by means of signing huge gpt deals. The GLB gives you a competitive advantage over the AI for a while. When the GLB expires you trigger your GA asap so as to capitalize on that gap or turn-advantage granted by the GLB.

    Drakan
     
  4. vmxa

    vmxa Chieftain

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    My issue is first I do not play well with others, so being on good terms is not my style at any level.

    Second, getting the GLB is not a given, even with a great start location. The chances are high that you will have to go to war at least once if you have a spot that is not in a corner. IOW I find you have many contacts right away and they will demand Lit.

    If you give it you lose the GLB most likely, if not you have a war. Me I take the war and will probably have at least two before I can afford to give up Lit. I often give Lit for an MA, once I feel safe. This timing depends on wonder cascades.

    Making your wonder city size 10 or better will cost you something and is not always an option.

    Getting more than 7 or 8 towns up before you are hemmed in is not a given.

    All can be done, but not a sure bet.
     
  5. vmxa

    vmxa Chieftain

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    BTW you have to be careful when you seen borders close. You cannot just drop a town down, if it will cause your borders to butt up to their, without the boirder epxansion.

    The AI does not like you to use aggressive town placement and will soon go to war.
     
  6. azzaman333

    azzaman333 meh

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    Bad habit from my games on Monarch.

    PP is still a monopoly tech IIRC. Building knights would be a good idea though. :hmm:

    I know how to use cats, trebs, etc to do that, i just need to remember to put it into practice. I've spent most of the time since the Iroquois war building a strong economy.

    Aha! That explains way the Iroquois ended up so aggresive against me so early.
     
  7. zerksees

    zerksees in remission

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    Without even looking at the save, this sounds tempting. Too many Civ irons in the fire atm. Bookmarking for future reference.

    All victory conditions enabled?
    Any mods to this game?
     
  8. Mirc

    Mirc Not mIRC!!!

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    Wow, vmxa, this is the longest reply I've ever seen in a Strategy thread! Good luck with winning the game, azzaman.
     
  9. azzaman333

    azzaman333 meh

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    No mods, all victory conditions, SGLs on. Dutch are a superpower.
     
  10. Ansar

    Ansar Détente avec l'été

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    Well, if you noticed the Dutch, you see that they started with 2 luxuries in their cultural borders(silks and ivory), ivory, the main power of an AI, with ivory, that AI soon becomes a superpower by annihialiting the weaker AI's, just look at Portugal, they got their @$$ whooped from Netherlands, so...now you know why Netherlands is a animal. Also, the Iroquis are agricultural, which forced you to have some problems on the early stage. And next time, you might want to try a Seafaring civ if you are going to do islands and try to get at least a lake for fresh water in your capital, an aqueduct is a lot of trouble in Emperor in your capital, well, maybe not much of a problem, but of a annoyance to your city.
     
  11. azzaman333

    azzaman333 meh

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    I like going random civs, and taking the start i get. This is actually a continents map, and me, iroquois and carthage were the unlucky ones, being isolated from the major continent.
     
  12. Chamnix

    Chamnix Chasing Time

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    Hi azza :wavey:

    I believe your game is winnable (and I'll try to prove it if I find some time:)), but it will take a little luck. In particular, you will need at least one leader (preferably more) and a boat that can carry him safely to Dutch territory before the Dutch get to Flight. If you can build an army and get him to the Netherlands, you can pillage to help slow the Dutch down. Fortunately, the Japanese may not be that far behind the Dutch so they may not be a true runaway AI. Unfortunately, it doesn't look realistic for you to be able to capture the Great Library before you get Education, or I would suggest that.

    Some comments on what to do first -

    1. What's with all the cathedrals? I guess the ones that are closest to completion, you can let complete since there is nothing to switch to, but any of them you can change to something useful, do so.

    2. Build more cities! You have a small island, and you are not even using all your tiles. In particular, the spot 3 NW of Salamanca needs a town, 3 northeast of Ugarit, and 2 north of Allegheny. None of those spots need take any tiles away from your current cities.

    3. Build some trebuchets. You want to leader fish, so you want battles that you are sure your elites can win. Taking a couple hps off the enemy is the best way to do this.

    4. Disband useless units. You have more defensive units than you need at this point. Have offensive units ready to greet the Carthaginians as they land. Typically the AI will pick a favorite landing spot and keep sending all their troops there. Be ready with trebbies and your offense, and you should not need to defend - disband a couple spearman to keep your unit costs down.

    5. Use your workers. First, they should improve the ground your new towns will be working, but if there is no ground left to improve, then plant forests and chop them down. You can only do this once per tile, but it will get you a couple hundred shields in total.

    6. Lose the scientists. Most of the towns with scientists could work an additional tile without having happiness problems. Let them grow at least once more before you hire scientists - even then, if it is more than 1 or 2 towns, you are probably better off just bumping the luxury slider. An exception would be a town like Oil Springs - since it can't grow, it is better off hiring a scientist than working the coast.

    In general, I think you are guilty of overbuilding. Not every town needs every building. I would consider selling a couple barracks now and build trebbies from those towns instead. Also, you have a couple walls in size 7 cities - sell them.

    Good luck!
     
  13. zerksees

    zerksees in remission

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    I decided to play this game a little last night. So in “succession game” format here is what I have so far:

    Pre-flight:
    Yikes what are we doing with techs?
    All our money into printing press? We can’t afford to wait for it to finish.
    There is some obvious tech disparity, so here come the trades. First I cut science to 0% and get rid of all the scientists but one, freeing up gold. If specialists needed they are taxmen, otherwise they are put back to work.

    Buy chemistry from Portugal for 73 gpt and 42 gold. They have like 5 cities and have more techs than we do.
    Sell chemistry to Byzantines for education and 23 gold.
    Buy astronomy and world map from India for chemistry, 12 gpt and 23 gold.

    Spot some unworked tiles so I change Allegheny to settler to fill the gap.

    Wake up the workers. Need to get some irrigation to the plains tiles near the capital.

    Somewhere here I notice there is only 2 hours and 47 minutes spent on this game so far. Is this true? How can you get to 990 AD in under 3 hours? I can’t even get to 990 BC in three hours.

    Overall I see a lot of improvements in these cities, probably too many.

    We are at war with Carthage and they will not acknowledge our envoy.

    IBT:
    2 Numidian Mercenaries land near Grand River
    Salamanca: medieval infantry -> trebuchet
    Dutch are building Universal Suffrage, India building JS Bachs. The Dutch have industrialization! We will catch them

    Turn 1: 1000 AD
    Portugal now has metallurgy.
    Buy it from them giving astronomy, 13 gold and 23 gpt
    Buy navigation and banking from India? giving metallurgy, 38 gpt and 50 gold
    Sell astronomy to ? collecting music theory, 16 gpt and 15 gold.
    Sell navigation to Portugal collecting 13 gold, 21 gpt and world map

    Change Hatsusas, Niagara Falls and Tarsus to build banks (from cathedrals)

    Lost 3 swords attacking the NM invaders (they were on grassland) barely doing any damage [0-3]
    Calling in medieval infantry

    IBT:
    Hatsusas: bank -> trebuchet
    Harran: aqueduct -> med inf
    Four more NMs land

    Turn 2: 1010 AD
    One medieval infantry takes out one of the NM [1-3]
    Workers on the irrigation trail to the north, and en route to unimproved tiles where new city will go. I’ll probably put the mines back on the grassland once the plains get irrigated.

    Discover I can upgrade the swords to med inf, and spears to pikes so do that were possible.

    IBT:
    Their NMs attack costing me one pike but they lose two NMs [3-4]
    Allegheny: settler -> trebuchet
    Cattargus: med inf -> med inf

    Turn 3: 1020 AD.
    Found zerksees east of Allegheny on the lake shore.
    More upgrades
    Carthage will now acknowledge our envoy, though they are not ready to pay for peace yet.

    IBT:
    Pike and med inf defend against NM attacks [5-4]
    Somewhere in here I believe I whacked the last NM with a med if [6-4].
    Tarsus: bank -> trebuchet
    Ugarit: market -> trebuchet

    Turn 4: 1030 AD
    I really want to put it to Carthage, but I lack trebs, boats and enough attacking units. Made peace with them collecting some gold and 1 gpt. Could not get them to give me a city.

    Not sure what to do next, but my first inclination is to build up units to take out Carthage. They are close and tech backward. They have horses on an island and that is too good to pass up.

    I also need to investigate trades more. With navigation I can sell our excess grapes to the world. I thought I made one trade of grapes but did not write it down. I’ll check that out.

    I should also say that even with the trades we are still pulling in between 70 and 80 gpt so there is some potential to catch up more. Portugal has saltpeter right next to their capital and that might be a worthy target once Carthage is toast.

    We have gained six important techs (one not so important), with three to go to get out of middle ages.

    Oh and there is a noticeable rise in the power bar for the Hittites. Can the Dutch survive?
     
  14. jb1964

    jb1964 Hunter of Fish

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    VXMA, nice thesis!
    Zerks, Nice progress.
    Azz, 990AD in 3 hours? What are you? Half man, half expresso? :)
     
  15. azzaman333

    azzaman333 meh

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    I've been told i play incredibly fast twice in a week. I think that means something like i dont MM enough. :mischief:

    TBH, id completely forgotton about this game. :lol: I think i gave up at that point.
     
  16. Ansar

    Ansar Détente avec l'été

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    No, that means you have no life except for civ.;) :p

    But dont worry, I play turns like that, all fast like. I never MM heavily, but I manage to keep the riots from happening.:D
     
  17. azzaman333

    azzaman333 meh

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    Sigh. I'll admit that is much truer than i would like it to be. (truer? is that even a word?)

    Hurray for Mapstat and CivAssist!
     
  18. zerksees

    zerksees in remission

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    Location:
    Wadsworth Ohio USA
    It's not just MM - you could turn the governor on. You need to check for trades, decide what your cities are going to build, etc. You have workers standing around wasting gold for support, swords to upgrade, and on and on. If you manage everything right you can win emperor 95% or more - unless you play some crazy variants.

    Also what was your goal with this game? Mine will be to wreck the AI's one by one and try to keep them from all the victory conditions until they can't win. If I have to I could launch the ship but domination or conquest is probably the way I plan to go if I can.

    I am playing a little more tonight. I will post when I can.

    No grapes trades yet. I may want to help Japan keep the Dutch from eating them up so I may trade with Japan.
     
  19. zerksees

    zerksees in remission

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2003
    Messages:
    1,639
    Location:
    Wadsworth Ohio USA
    double post - I hate when that happens
     
  20. vmxa

    vmxa Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    13,701
    Location:
    Oviedo, Fl
    I think one can play fairly quick turns, if you are very experienced and do not have to think long on actions to take.

    None the less, 210 turns in 3 hours has to mean very little thought can occur in most turns. I played a lurker turnset for an SG last week and it was only on Monarch, but it took me 5 hours to do the preflight.

    I think the dates were about 12xx AD. Now that was unusal as it had many things needing corrections and lots of workers runnning amuk and a war going on. There were over 100 native workers alone. Every town needed to be check and many citizen reassigned on three landmasses.

    It is quite possible to have a turn require almost no action on ones part at emperor or any level, but not 210 of them. What does MM mean to you anyway? I think you can easily get by with out trying to squeeze every shield out of every town on every turn, but not checking them after growth will cost you.

    You do not even have to check for trades every turn, but should take a peek every few turns. You can get a feel for how the AI is doing, after all we did get by without all these wonderful tools at one time.

    Just slow down and scroll around your empire and see if any towns are about to grow or are showing yellow pop numbers or red ones. Evaluate those future sites, that takes a bit of time, but is very good habit.
     

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