Can murder ever cause a net positive effect on the world?

[ybbor]

Many people think that a war or release of a disease can or cannot have a positive impact. So let's get to the heart of the question: can death caused by one human being to another human being be good for the world as a whole?

For the purposes of this thread and poll murder shall be defined as "the willful killing of one human being by another." It shall make no mention of time or place, or the alleged justification for the murder. Keep in mind that almost all murders seem justified to the person doing them.

murder for this poll includes: the death penalty, killings in war, the harming or removing of aid to one person with intent to kill them, etc.

it does not include: mass killings (i.e. bomb dropping) where the target isn't specified.

And a question for those who say murder can cause a net positive, but war cannot: if one killing is able to be justified, couldn't that same killing be multiplied on a large scale in war?

 

[Truronian]

It can, but I still think it should be avoided. Sacrificing one person for the greater good has always seemed unfair to me (Christian undertones completely unintentional). Incarcirate that person instead, or if they are innocent, try and work around the problem.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Whos being murdered? Hitler, or my well built Aunt in Cleveland?

 

[tomsnowman123]

Not justified, since the one being killed in all likelihood doesn't want to be. Killing is wrong, whether it's murder, death penalty, etc, how can one person justify such control over another. Pacifism all the way.

 

[CoolioVonHoolio]

No ghandi... (tomsnowman) i dont know if your post was sarcastic or what but pacifism cant always be the way. If there is a man who is rallying troops and people to kill others, his one life should be killed to save the lives of the potential people that will be killed. same with osama bin laden... if he were publicly stoned or something i think alot of western civilisation would feel very proud

 

[sysyphus]

same with osama bin laden... if he were publicly stoned or something i think alot of western civilisation would feel very proud

Pride is rubbish and a bad reason for doing anything. Dealings with Osama bin Laden should only revolve around the protection of the Amercican and western civilisations, and all actions should focus strictly on that goal.

 

[GenMarshall]

I always go with "Thou shall not kill". So I dont feel murder can ever cause a net positive effect on the world.

 

[pboily]

I'm fairly sure that murder could cause a net positive effect on the world in some cases, but I sure as hell won't be the one to cast that particular stone.

I would only kill in order to directly defend my daughter and (to a lesser extent) myself.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

If someone had killed Hitler and Stalin in the 1920's it would have had a positive
effect on the world.
Killing is only justified when it prevents more killing.

 

[Kozmos]

Hell yea. Of course it can, what kind of a question is that?

Example: I shoot a serial killer. He no longer kills innocent. = net positive effect

 

[ybbor]

Whos being murdered? Hitler, or my well built Aunt in Cleveland?

either one, the question, as it was in other threads, if either of those killings can _ever_ have a net positive effect

 

[Sidhe]

I always go with "Thou shall not kill". So I dont feel murder can ever cause a net positive effect on the world.

Problem is though shalt not kill is an entirely different kettle of fish, it leaves all killing as against Gods word, only though shalt not murder has the question of killing in the name of..... left open. Thankfully few Religions subscribe to that idea.

War is an exception, usually, but individually speaking killing someone for any reason is not Christian. Jesus clealy tells us that we should turn the other cheek even if that would mean our death. Some froms of Christianity leave Jesus' tenants as moribund and sadly they advocate that killing can be justified under many ideals as long as it is legally sanctioned or by a society morals, what are we to believe?

I looked into the meat of all religions and no one is quite sure, this is sadly another example of interpritation leaving the door open to moraly outrageous beliefs individually, I was just following orders, they were legal orders, we are told that they have killed and so should die, therefore I am allowed to kill or whatever; it's a moral minefield and it's sadly deviod of any real religous belief, it's just a method to assuage guilt, nothing more, nothing less. But then again when has mankind ever truly followed his religion? It seems there are always loopholes.

 

[Raisin Bran]

I'm fairly sure that murder could cause a net positive effect on the world in some cases, but I sure as hell won't be the one to cast that particular stone.

I would only kill in order to directly defend my daughter and (to a lesser extent) myself.

I fully agree with Pboily ....... but its a case by case situation ...... you cant generalise that!

I would only kill to defend my son, GF and maybe me!

Though I voted for the radioactive monkeys!

 

[Sidhe]

Hell yea. Of course it can, what kind of a question is that?

Example: I shoot a serial killer. He no longer kills innocent. = net positive effect

He's jailed in a maximum security prison in isolation and no longer kills anyone? Your point is, at least he has the chance to repent, to suffer for his sins, either way he's not a threat to society. Who knows he may go on to preach against his acts and bring people to believe that there acts are wrong, a gangland lieutenant preaches the word of forgiveness from jail, and a few who would follow the path to murder again and again listen? Who are you to judge?

 

[Masquerouge]

Any effect can not be measured, because your murder might just have started something worse.
Like maybe the next victim of the serial killer you just killed will turn out to be an even worse serial killer.

So since we don't know, and have no way of knowing, my opinion is that it is safer not to kill.

 

[Kozmos]

He's jailed in a maximum security prison in isolation and no longer kills anyone? Your point is, at least he has the chance to repent, to suffer for his sins, either way he's not a threat to society. Who knows he may go on to preach against his acts and bring people to believe that there acts are wrong, a gangland lieutenant preaches the word of forgiveness from jail, and a few who would follow the path to murder again and again listen? Who are you to judge?

Bwhahah you wish that would happen, but no. If suffering is needed there are far more painful ways to execute someone(nerve gas). And in case you didnt know:

I am Cleric. I am the Judge, Jury, AND the Executioner as well as a lazy bum from Eastern Europe.

Any effect can not be measured, because your murder might just have started something worse.
Like maybe the next victim of the serial killer you just killed will turn out to be an even worse serial killer.

So since we don't know, and have no way of knowing, my opinion is that it is safer not to kill.

Those are what ifs. I dont deal with them until someone invents a time machine.

 

[Masquerouge]

Those are what ifs. I dont deal with them until someone invents a time machine.

Exactly. Since you can not deal with what if, then you should not murder.

 

[Kozmos]

Exactly. Since you can not deal with what if, then you should not murder.

Then we should cease all life. I'm going to the movies and I have to pickup two friends, Jerry and George. I go for George first and I get into a car crash and 3 people die.

WHY WHY WHY DIDNT I GO FOR JERRY FIRST!!!?! WHAT IF!!!???

 

[tomsnowman123]

No ghandi... (tomsnowman) i dont know if your post was sarcastic or what but pacifism cant always be the way. If there is a man who is rallying troops and people to kill others, his one life should be killed to save the lives of the potential people that will be killed. same with osama bin laden... if he were publicly stoned or something i think alot of western civilisation would feel very proud

I wasn't sarcastic, but I realize a perfectly pacifist world will probably never happen during my time.

 

[Narz]

Self defense is the ONLY excuse.

And 99,999 times out of 100,000 you don't need to kill a person to get them to leave you alone.