[BTS] Can one liberate a city of a non-vassal civ?

[Yin Cognito]

I used the liberate city option to liberate several cities of my (capitulated) vassals in my previous games, and I liked it. I was wondering if you could liberate a city of a civ you are at war with, when the peace treaty is eventually "signed", but without vassalizing them.

I wasn't interested in such an option in my previous games, but in my current game there are a couple of civs that declared on me (you know, the usual "let's screw the human player" thingy), and I don't want to vassalize any of them, since Russia (who I'm at peace with) is ideally suited for the role of a capitulated vassal, due to rich iron and coal resources that they have (which I'm going to use as a suplement for my Mining Inc).

Lastly, if you can liberate cities of another civ without vasalizing them, do the diplo bonuses work the same (aka, are they happy with it enough to avoid war with me for a while)?

 

[Archon_Wing]

You can always give cities to people, but it has to be somewhat within their culture range. For example, if you completely banish an AI from the landmass, they wouldn't take any of the cities.

You will also get bonuses for liberating the cities as well. If it's enough depends on how much they hated you to begin with. War tends to ruin relationships even if you don't declare on them, because previous positive bonuses are lost.

 

[lymond]

Are you saying you will take cities and then liberate them back? You should be able to do that immediately, unless there is something weird about the cities, like they were someone else's before. I would just just vassal an AI if I had that option, or just kill them outright.

Gifting/liberating cities though don't factor all that much in an AIs declaring war on you or not, unless you get them to Please or Friendly, and that AI does not plot at Please. Some AIs plot at pleased.

Gifting a city does not give the same bonus as liberating, except maybe fair trade bonus if you don't have that yet. You get a bonus on liberate city I think at 3 liberated.

 

[Yin Cognito]

You will also get bonuses for liberating the cities as well. If it's enough depends on how much they hated you to begin with.

Nice. That's what I wanted to know - thanks.

Are you saying you will take cities and then liberate them back? I would just just vassal an AI if I had that option, or just kill them outright.

Yes, me too, but:
1. I'm a peacemonger in this game (never declare war unless provoked, etc), so 'kill them' option is not an option.
2. I would also vassalize them, but I'd like to gain something from vassalizing (e.g. hammers for Mining Inc.) - especially in the case of capitulated vassals. Some civs have the appropriate resources, some don't, therefore, from my POV, it's worth to choose your vassals carefully, to have benefits from them. I was asking the question for the case of resource poor opponents that I don't want to vassalize (as I would have nothing to gain), where liberating their cities after "teaching them a lesson" (short war of 'retribution') might actually "solve" / improve the relationship with them ... or at least balance the effect of degrading relationship due to war.

Gifting/liberating cities though don't factor all that much in an AIs declaring war on you or not.

I'm ok with that - I'm the top dog militarily speaking. I'm more interested in not degrading the diplo to the point where I can't trade various resources with them.

Gifting a city does not give the same bonus as liberating, except maybe fair trade bonus if you don't have that yet. You get a bonus on liberate city I think at 3 liberated.

That's good to know - very useful info. Thanks.

EDIT: That being said, what I really wanted to know is can you liberate (not gift, but liberate ... from yourself) the cities you captured from/to a non-vassal civ? I know you can with vassals, just didn't know if you can do it outside the vassaling system, that's all. Oops, just noticed that was actually answered by lymond (e.g. 'You should be able to do that immediately')...

 

[lymond]

Yeah, it depends on the city and what it has, but often when I create a vassal I might liberate back some of their cities to make them stronger in all regards. Also, sometimes you take cities that are under heavy cultural pressure, so I'd rather just gift it back than have to deal with suppressing it. Unless the city has a buttload of wonders in it...ha

Another note, for diplo purposes, if there are AIs that had that vassal as worst enemy prior to capitulation, let 1 turn pass before gifting the vassal anything. Usually the WE thing will go away once capitulated but it takes a turn after the turn you capped them. Reason being is that if you liberated city to your vassal with the WE in place, you will get a dipo hit with those AIs.

 

[Yin Cognito]

Yeah, it depends on the city and what it has, but often when I create a vassal I might liberate back some of their cities to make them stronger in all regards.

I do the same, with capitulated vassals - that's quite logical.

Another note, for diplo purposes, if there are AIs that had that vassal as worst enemy prior to capitulation, let 1 turn pass before gifting the vassal anything. Usually the WE thing will go away once capitulated but it takes a turn after the turn you capped them. Reason being is that if you liberated city to your vassal with the WE in place, you will get a dipo hit with those AIs.

Actually, there aren't any AIs that had the vassal (the Indians, as I gave up on capitulating Russia, since it was too far, and apparently the Indians have a reasonable amount of Iron, Copper, Wheat, Rice for my corporations) as their WE - I didn't have any vassal beforehand, plus, I attacked them, so some AIs have 'You attacked our friend' thing. But anyway, that's very useful info - thank you.

By the way, the Indians (the civ that I vassalize through capitulation) had me as their WE (due to the war, they didn't have me as WE prior to the conflict) - do you think it's a problem if I gift them (aka liberate) their cities the exact turn I capitulate them (aka while they still have me as their WE)? I was amused by the fact that capitulated India was Friendly (due to liberating their cities) towards me while at the same time they considered me their WE, LMAO. Even thought of posting a screenshot with that thing, haha! Of course, that WE icon dissapears the next turn, since I have a healthy +16 attitude from them overall (liberating their 12 or 13 cities that I captured produced a +19), but I still found it amusing that the said turn the attitude icon changed, but the WE icon didn't...

One other question, if you don't mind: the Indians have more than 50% the amount of my land and (citizen count, not the calculated amount from demographics screen) population. Do you think they could try to break free in the future, at +16 attitude they have now towards me? I mean, I didn't force them to give me resources for nothing, but I still made (accepted by them) trades in which I give a single resource and they give me 2....

 

[lymond]

Yeah but the WE takes a turn to go away. No isssus though.


You did leave him quite big, but I've never had a vassal break away. Only real way they break and declare on you is if you keep making demands

 

[Yin Cognito]

Yeah but the WE takes a turn to go away. No isssus though.


You did leave him quite big, but I've never had a vassal break away. Only real way they break and declare on you is if you keep making demands

Thank you. I'll vassalize him then, as it might help for the UN and AP resolutions (no, I'm not going for diplo or religious victory, but space race, however it's better to have those votes secured), since the vassal votes the same as the master. The resource trade will most likely survive unharmed even if the RNG "decides" that he'll try to break away in the future anyway (hopefully, he won't, though )...

EDIT: I might become bigger in the population aspect though, as I will expand my food corporation, so maybe I'll close that way out for him. One last question, although off topic: do you know the shortcut for changing a unit name (say, from 'Musketman 10' to 'Musketman 11') - if it's possible to rename it, that is?

 

[lymond]

I don't know a shortcut, but there might be one. There is a list out there somewhere. Try googling "civ iv hotkeys"

Anyway, you can change a unit's name by clicking on his name in the lower left.

 

[Yin Cognito]

Anyway, you can change a unit's name by clicking on his name in the lower left.

That's it! I discovered this some time ago, but in the meantime forgot how to do it, and now I needed it - thanks a million. I didn't necessarily needed a keyboard shortcut, but a way to rename some of my units that are not properly ordered, now that some of them died in the battle with Asoka. I knew it was easy, but couldn't figure it out no matter what...