Can only whites be racists and is Africa no place for whites?

[Zardnaar]

Beats me why people think seizing farms is a good idea.

Didn't work in Zimbabwe, South Africa, USSR or Cambodia.

Better idea is tax them and put up inheritance tax, use that tax to buy the farms back.

Great solution not really, I think people have idyllic views of farms. They require capital, skills, experience etc to run them.

And it's not like the people who need help benefit and in a lot of cases the farms take decades to develop as well.

I'm guessing not to many CFCers have worked on one.

 

[Skwink]

Oh, but wait... my ancestors and their ancestors originally came from somewhere else. All the people in those countries need to "go back" to where they came from. And so on and on and on, until all the billions of people are clustered in East Africa, where the earliest-known human fossils were found.

Two posts in and you're already talking about going to Africa to "settle" that land. You literally can not stop trying to colonize.

 

[Patine]

Two posts in and you're already talking about going to Africa to "settle" that land. You literally can not stop trying to colonize.

Drop the "script" and think about your own posts and those your responding to in a rational, intelligent, thought-out way that shows you read the post, understand what was said, and your response is coherent and sensible as such, and not a troped, cliched, "lashing-out" using buzzwords and taglines mindlessly. Please.

 

[Skwink]

Drop the "script" and think about your own posts and those your responding to in a rational, intelligent, thought-out way that shows you read the post, understand what was said, and your response is coherent and sensible as such, and not a troped, cliched, "lashing-out" using buzzwords and taglines mindlessly. Please.

...no

 

[Zardnaar]

Two posts in and you're already talking about going to Africa to "settle" that land. You literally can not stop trying to colonize.

Not what they said at all.

Problem with Uber liberals is they don't let facts and logic get in the way of reality or grey areas.

We don't have many blacks in NZ but the ones we do have are from South Africa, Zimbabwe, and Nigeria.

They didn't do land seizures here but they did treaty payouts to the tribes. Costs billions of dollars but Nga Tahu for example has invested it into fisheries, forestry etc scholarships.

Basically you need to identify the wrong work out what you're going to do about it and build up the infrastructure or environment to not screw it up.

 

[Squonk]

...no

lol, you are goodl.

C-mon, Skwink is not serious.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Two posts in and you're already talking about going to Africa to "settle" that land. You literally can not stop trying to colonize.

I'm guessing that your knowledge of human evolution/physical anthropology is somewhere around zero.

Taken to its logical extreme, "go back where you came from" would mean that every human on this planet - all seven-point-whatever billion of us - would have to go to East Africa and settle there, because according to current knowledge of where the oldest human fossils were found, East Africa is where we all originally came from.

How can we "colonize" a place that was our original home?

Like I said, it's going to get crowded.

 

[Skwink]

How can we "colonize" a place that was our original home?

So you'd say what the Europeans did to Africa wasn't colonization?

Also, idk what tree your ancestors evolved from but mine lived in the sea originally.

 

[Zardnaar]

So you'd say what the Europeans did to Africa wasn't colonization?

Also, idk what tree your ancestors evolved from but mine lived in the sea originally.

Wasn't nice but there is a tendency to blame whitey for a lot of Africa's problems.

It gets tepetive and in some cases it's been almost 3 generations so it's getting harder to blame colonization.

Pre colonization the Africans were capable of their own imperialism, slavery.

Apartheid was cancer, the situation is a hot more complex in Zimbabwe. Pre 1980 it was racist by our standards but things were changing anyway.

Post colonization same crap for the most part but the new elites are worse than the old ones and you can die to random violence and struggle to eat as an added bonus.

Big problem was they tire down the old system without the institutions to replace them.

Hence corruption, incompetence, ethnic cleansing etc.

Alternate reality no apartheid in 40s, spend next 40 years expanding rights and integrating new elites transitioning to free elections in the 80s or 90s. Everyone likely would have been better off.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

So you'd say what the Europeans did to Africa wasn't colonization?

Show me where I said that.

Also, idk what tree your ancestors evolved from but mine lived in the sea originally.

I'm not aware of any human fossils being found in the ocean. The earliest human fossils I'm aware of were found in Africa.

Naturally, if we go back even farther, we would all have to move underwater, or possibly out into the solar system to find the asteroids or comets that may have given organic chemistry a boost a few billion years ago.

But if we did move underwater, the intelligent sea-based lifeforms would likely consider us colonizers and want us to leave (with the added threat of having us for a snack if we refused to leave).

 

[Patine]

...no

Well, since you've made this admission, and your full intentions on the tenor and nature of your crystal clear, I see no reason at all to think that any further post of yours will be of any value or any insight, but will just be unthinkingly reciting pre-prepared scripts by ideological masters, with no innovation or independent thought, or actual RESPOSNE to the posts in question.

 

[Tee Kay]

Easy solution: open borders

 

[Gorbles]

Also, I would like to point to that land was always stolen as a part of conquest. This was a "normal" thing in the horrible ages and we've made a great step forward. But you are taking modern legal measures, apply them to the deeds centuries ago, and want to create legal consequences for today. While the past deeds were outrageous crimes, it was what was being done back then. Not just there. It's impossible to rectify thousands of years of human history, or even centuries, in the way you envisage it. Au contraire, attempts to do so will unevitably lead to more strife, and more harm.

Just want to grab this snippet because it opens up the general thinking from Squonk (and likely others in this thread that agree with these kinds of notions).

British sovereignty on South Africa is, at the typing of this post, 117 years old. Now, if you want to focus on the Dutch in this equation, sure, feel free. But you're the one getting outraged that people are lumping all "whites" together, and yet you seem to do the same when it's convenient to you. Maybe you should specify what crimes and what misdeeds you object to compensation for, so we can focus on the crimes and misdeeds that you don't?

 

[Akka]

Two posts in and you're already talking about going to Africa to "settle" that land. You literally can not stop trying to colonize.

I'm going to assume it was a playful joke ?

 

[Senethro]

As I have said, other than a Khmer Rouge seizure and arbitrary redistribution of all land, there is no easy or obvious solution that is enforceable to guaranteed to have any justice or equity to it and have old hatreds - by the Afrikaaners and other Whites, as well as the Bantu ethnicities, and the remaining Khoikhoi - bleeding in and tainting the affair, and the endemic corruption causing massive problems as well. A real flawed point of view in socio-political "problem solving" today is the flawed and fallacious notion that poignant and major socio-political issues can realistically be dealt with in-and-of themselves, in a void. This is utter foolishness. The major issues of each nation - and the issues of nations in their interaction with other nations, and with international organizations, NGO's, and religions, rebel and terrorist groups, and mega-corporations that span borders all weave into a huge, tangled web that ties so much together intricately that the "issue in a void" viewpoint becomes utterly ludicrous when thought about rationally. At the very least, the issues connected at the hip and closest related to the issue in question, and the deep-seated national problem (and, indeed, at least by restrospection, a sober and clear view of the history leading up to it) need to be addressed as well, or any proposed solution is doomed to fail, and quite possibly make things worse.

Yes, its hard, but so what? You're not serious about long term peace (or social order if you prefer) if you don't offer a solution.

The thing is, if land grabs are so common and so forgivable (they must be easily excusable if there is no need for rectification!), then all that is hardly an incentive not to have one more. Just one more. Don't mind the blood and noise.

Now, how do you pre-empt that and stop it from occurring?

 

[Senethro]

Wasn't nice but there is a tendency to blame whitey for a lot of Africa's problems.

It gets tepetive and in some cases it's been almost 3 generations so it's getting harder to blame colonization.

Pre colonization the Africans were capable of their own imperialism, slavery.

Apartheid was cancer, the situation is a hot more complex in Zimbabwe. Pre 1980 it was racist by our standards but things were changing anyway.

Post colonization same crap for the most part but the new elites are worse than the old ones and you can die to random violence and struggle to eat as an added bonus.

Big problem was they tire down the old system without the institutions to replace them.

Hence corruption, incompetence, ethnic cleansing etc.

Alternate reality no apartheid in 40s, spend next 40 years expanding rights and integrating new elites transitioning to free elections in the 80s or 90s. Everyone likely would have been better off.

Wow aren't old people just terrible. I seldom (but do) hear such nostalgia for empire in bloody blighty.

 

[Kyriakos]

Africa is still not out of the colonization era, really. Apart from the various countries there which are tied to France (with France invading from time to time, of course for humanitarian reason), even the relatively more advanced ones have either dictatorships (eg Egypt) or are in locked cold or not so cold wars and breaking up. Not sure how South Africa is, but obviously it isn't a very stable society either, with the legacy of apartheid. Still compared to most of the continent it likely is better off now.
And then there's Libya, killed by the EU/US and to be in a state of chaos for the foreseeable future.

 

[Modder_Mode]

Is that the answer?
Or are the Lumbees the example of the for the future.

People who have been given the most by the government have ironically been crippled the most by them.

 

[Modder_Mode]

They'd need to hit a balance of putting capital to work for all South Africans while also making sure that capital doesn't start to depress in value.

South Africa's inequality took generations to build, so it should be expected that it will take generations to equalize.

It's a mistake to think that income equality is correlated with overall poverty, there are countries with really high income equality and very low overall poverty, like the United States, and there are countries with zero income equality like Sudan, where nobody has anything.

 

[EnglishEdward]

It's not the only case of conquest, extermination etc. To be "fair", white people should all move out of Americas, then most of them should move out of Europe too, and leave it to the Basques.

Where exactly should the white people move to?