1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Can someone tell me why Socialism is so bad?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by BakingTheArt, Sep 19, 2009.

  1. BakingTheArt

    BakingTheArt His Evening Coat

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2008
    Messages:
    845
    Location:
    A two-story box
    Besides the right-wing propaganda that's been coming out of the Republican Party and the teabaggers and such.

    Why would a government that we directly control be worse than entrusting the important services we depend on, such as water, national security, health care electricity, even education in some cases, to private sector companies that we have no control over, except not buying the product. In the case of electricity, national security and the like, there isn't even that option. It's their way or you can live in the dark.

    Could someone just explain this to me, please?
     
  2. dirtyparrot

    dirtyparrot Upholding Brannigan's Law

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2005
    Messages:
    1,841
    Because as the financial meltdown has clearly shown that they do things better.

    Personally, I think it just a vestige of the Cold War which probably had more to do with who would dominate the world than the type of economy/political system that they would run. It's just that people have been trained to think this way for over 60yrs, so it's very ingrained in people.

    Personally, I think that there should be at the bare minimum some things that should not be for profit.
     
  3. SeleucusNicator

    SeleucusNicator Diadoch

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2002
    Messages:
    6,822
    Location:
    America
    No human system is perfect, and markets are no exception. However even if you blame the current crisis entirely on capitalism (and that is disputable), command economies have resulted in far more spectacular failures that caused far more death and devastation. I still feel very confident making the argument that free markets allocate resources better than central planning.
     
  4. SeleucusNicator

    SeleucusNicator Diadoch

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2002
    Messages:
    6,822
    Location:
    America
    Have you read Road to Serfdom? The central argument of the book is that a socialist government would cease to be democratic due to the needs of running a successful planned economy.

    It's a very short, straightforward book that I read in one day, and I'm sure you can find it for free on the internet somewhere.
     
  5. SeleucusNicator

    SeleucusNicator Diadoch

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2002
    Messages:
    6,822
    Location:
    America
    Also, you have no choice about your electric company because electric companies and other utilities often have government-granted monopolies. In the late 19th century, for instance, you would often have multiple different power companies that you could choose for.
     
  6. Yared

    Yared That Guy

    Joined:
    May 21, 2009
    Messages:
    4,516
    Location:
    Hufvudstaden
    Because it's much more harder to become extremely wealthy.
     
  7. dirtyparrot

    dirtyparrot Upholding Brannigan's Law

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2005
    Messages:
    1,841
    The problem is that free markets are not very free. They are much more collusion-like. And when you have politicians in your pocket, it's much easier to maintain this collusion. So, often times, the market does not correct itself.
     
  8. Riffraff

    Riffraff Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2006
    Messages:
    2,059
    Location:
    Munich
    Because a free market democracy worked much better than a totalitarian socialst state some 20 years ago.
     
  9. Irish Caesar

    Irish Caesar Yellow Jacket

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2002
    Messages:
    10,278
    Location:
    Atlanta, former CSA
    The whole "government that we directly control" is a fun concept, but not particularly realistic. Once it becomes easier to vote out incumbents, I'll be more likely to buy that.

    As a side note, I've never voted for a winning candidate in anything other that a town election or a primary.
     
  10. classical_hero

    classical_hero In whom I trust

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2003
    Messages:
    33,262
    Location:
    Perth,Western Australia
    Actually some of the more socialistic countries have fared much worse than some of the more capitalistic societies in this crisis. Using such a broad brush is always dangerous.
     
  11. dirtyparrot

    dirtyparrot Upholding Brannigan's Law

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2005
    Messages:
    1,841
    My answer was not on the scope of the state level, but rather in response to the negativity associated with the word Socialism in reference to the teabagger protest (i.e. socialism in x). My point was there are a number of examples of the private sector failing as there are of the government in a particular sector.
     
  12. Gustave5436

    Gustave5436 Emperor

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    Messages:
    1,319
    You pose a false dichotomy. By far the most successful strand of Socialism rejects both Capital and the State.
     
  13. Munch

    Munch Benevolent Despot

    Joined:
    May 25, 2006
    Messages:
    2,081
    Socialists can't swim; they attract enemy radar; they attract sharks; they insist on being placed at the Captain's table; they get up late; they nudge people whilst they're shooting; they muck about. Oh sorry, that's homosexuals.
     
  14. classical_hero

    classical_hero In whom I trust

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2003
    Messages:
    33,262
    Location:
    Perth,Western Australia
    Well some people here have the same negativity towards the word conservative, or neo-conservative. You did not show you point every well. In fact I think this is a good working of the market, because it gets rid of businesses that had a bad business model. They say that bad decision are made during bad times, even worse ones are made when things are going good. We saw that play out in this financial crisis.
     
  15. Akka

    Akka Moody old mage.

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2001
    Messages:
    13,514
    Location:
    Facing my computer.
    It isn't bad. It's just that USA has some kind of ingrained deep-seated hatred of it. Kind of a cultural, national knee-jerk reaction to it.

    What's bad is either totalitarism (too much state), either anarchy (not enough). Economic ideologies are actually quite separate from the real amount of tyranny from the government, and you have quite socialist governments with lots of personnal freedom (western Europe or Scandinavia) and quite free market dictatorship (South American countries were specialists in this at a time).

    I would say that USA have a cultural streak of "each man does hiw own way" and a willfull blindness about the tyranny that is implied with accumulation of power in the free market economy.
     
  16. Fifty

    Fifty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2004
    Messages:
    10,649
    Location:
    an ecovillage in madagascar
    Because an economic ideology which has a theoretical core that requires people be altruistic and work together is massively unrealistic and doesn't understand human nature...

    ...Unlike free market capitalism, which has a theoretical core that operates only on realistic assumptions (like that people are perfectly rational utility maximizers with perfect access to all information and perfect ranking of preferences and...)
     
  17. Camikaze

    Camikaze Administrator Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2008
    Messages:
    27,312
    Location:
    Sydney
    The vast majority that don't like conservatism, however, view it as misguided and ignorant, more than an evil plan to take over the world and destroy everyone's rights. Socialism, on the other hand, is commonly associated with conspiracies to kill everyone and steal all they own, rather than just generally disliked and disagreed with. Of course, the two situations can be in reverse in many cases, but that is the general pattern.
     
  18. Sharwood

    Sharwood Rich, doctor nephew

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2008
    Messages:
    6,954
    Location:
    A little place outside Atlanta
    Yep. There is simply no incentive to work harder in a socialist system. Human beings are not naturally altruistic. We do things for personal gain, and socialism - in the traditional sense, I'm not talking about the so-called "social democracies" here - does not leave adequate scope for such personal gain.

    By the way, awesome avatars Cami and dirtyparrot! :thumbsup:
     
  19. Akka

    Akka Moody old mage.

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2001
    Messages:
    13,514
    Location:
    Facing my computer.
    Did you even realize he was being ironic ? :-/
     
  20. Sharwood

    Sharwood Rich, doctor nephew

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2008
    Messages:
    6,954
    Location:
    A little place outside Atlanta
    Actually, I was only referring to the first half of his post. I didn't even pay attention to the second.
     

Share This Page