Can the USA Afford Universal Healthcare?

[Lexicus]

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.GD.ZS?view=map

US defense spending/GDP isn't hugely out of line with the global average.

 

[adcarrymaokai]

What's funny is that people in the US like to say that in the countries with universal healthcare you have to wait for months to see a doctor, while in the US even in big cities and with insurance and everything you have to wait forever to get any appointment anywhere.

That's because we have a gigantic shortage of doctors in general. That's because medical school costs an astronomical amount of money (and people who go to medical school go there to make money in the healthcare business, not because they genuinely care about treating people). Just as an example, there are only 15,000 dermatologists in the entire country, population of 330 million and counting. That's ABSURD.

Healthcare system in the US is beyond broken, and I just don't understand why so many people cling to it. Many of my friends legit go to Europe, Canada, and Asia to get their medical needs met. It's just absurd. We live in a third world country.

 

[Farm Boy]

I know too many of those thick fingered hands with the people attached..... that have no chance and need help

The fat n dim trope gets So. Very. Old.

Probably not least of which because, and probably unrelated to you, fact that the younger and less experienced one is, the more likely it is to shine through.

 

[adcarrymaokai]

Also, fun fact: some US cities offer free tuition for community college, so clearly it is possible to also have nearly free education.

All these nice things are possible, if we did not spend so much money on invading other countries and if CEO's did not get paid 800 times the regular workers.

You can call it communism or whatever, but we legit need a new redistribution of wealth because none of "trickled down" since the Raegan policies. In fact, it all staled at the 1% top.

 

[Hrothbern]

The fat n dim trope gets So. Very. Old.

I don't understand you.
With thick fingers I did not mean fat... fat in the sense of obese people having fat fingers... not obeses people being dim or so.

People with thick fingers is a figure of speech for manual workers in Dutch.
I did mean people that work all day with their hands with physical labor for their hands.. like working with a shovel with earth, work with metal parts having weight in not so well heated shopfloors, work outdoors in construction with bricks etc (not pushing buttons). They get mostly thick fingers with thicker skin. The work where you need 5 minutes to get your hands clean and decent again before you go home.
Not the soft hands of clerks used to admin and PC stuff.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

There is definitely something fishy about USA here. Leaving aside how amazingly expensive private healthcare looks in that graph, with such public spending you should have state of the art NHS, as Germany or Switzerland, instead it seems far worse than Spain's NHS (which is not currently at its best moment btw) costing twice or more.

 

[Hrothbern]

There is definitely something fishy about USA here. Leaving aside how amazingly expensive private healthcare looks in that graph, with such public spending you should have state of the art NHS, as Germany or Switzerland, instead it seems far worse than Spain's NHS (which is not currently at its best moment btw) costing twice or more.

Most of those countries are commies anyway, stiffling the FREE development of individuals
and the few that cannot be accused of that have not seen the light

 

[Cutlass]

Other countries can afford universal healthcare because they don't spend trillions on their national offense.

Waste, fraud, and abuse, in the American healthcare system is a much larger share of the US economy than total defense spending.

 

[Arwon]

Switching to Medicare for all erases that and moves the discussion to just supplemental benefits your employer might provide.

Wouldn't you rather they just pay you the money currently they're spending on now needless health insurance coverage? Why continue to tie health insurance coverage to employers at all?

(also speaking from Australia, when you've got a universal healthcare system, the continued existence of private insurance can easily be mostly a rip-off for the people buying it, and an excuse to shortchange access and limit funding of the universal system, so that ain't great)

 

[Hrothbern]

Wouldn't you rather they just pay you the money currently they're spending on now needless health insurance coverage? Why continue to tie healthcare to employers at all?

Tying healthcare to employers is like the old obedience structure
You get benefits for your loyally fulfilling of your duties.

If the government takes care it has become a right !

And government "charity" like food banks are not to be confused with social rights of a material nature.

 

[Estebonrober]

Wouldn't you rather they just pay you the money currently they're spending on now needless health insurance coverage? Why continue to tie health insurance coverage to employers at all?

(also speaking from Australia, when you've got a universal healthcare system, the continued existence of private insurance can easily be mostly a rip-off for the people buying it, and an excuse to shortchange access and limit funding of the universal system, so that ain't great)

Yea, well there are these things that corporations over here do called kickbacks that means I can get a lawyer on retainer for cheaper than normal because its a "benefit". Meaning my company gets something out of offering all its employees this legal service. I don't imagine that will go away with Medicare for all it will just shift to supplemental insurance for those who want that kind of thing.

 

[Bamspeedy]

Everyone will at some point need medical care. What medical condition will happen to me and which plans cover it? Will this benefit be worth more than the pay cut of x I'm taking to work at this other company that pays less but has a 'better' health care plan? I'd be surprised if discounts on third party services actually changes anyone's choices on where to work. "Oh, I want to work there because I get discounts on Netflix and plane tickets and for a lawyer I may never need."

 

[Farm Boy]

I don't understand you.

Idioms are fun.

 

[Lexicus]

You can call it communism or whatever, but we legit need a new redistribution of wealth because none of "trickled down" since the Raegan policies.

Can totally get behind calling him Dark Wizard Rægan from now on

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I don't understand you.
With thick fingers I did not mean fat... fat in the sense of obese people having fat fingers... not obeses people being dim or so.

People with thick fingers is a figure of speech for manual workers in Dutch.
I did mean people that work all day with their hands with physical labor for their hands.. like working with a shovel with earth, work with metal parts having weight in not so well heated shopfloors, work outdoors in construction with bricks etc (not pushing buttons). They get mostly thick fingers with thicker skin. The work where you need 5 minutes to get your hands clean and decent again before you go home.
Not the soft hands of clerks used to admin and PC stuff.

In English this idiom sounded like a fat people slander. Thick typically denotes obese in the US. Saying that thick finger can't type reads like you are saying fat people are too dumb to type.

 

[Estebonrober]

Everyone will at some point need medical care. What medical condition will happen to me and which plans cover it? Will this benefit be worth more than the pay cut of x I'm taking to work at this other company that pays less but has a 'better' health care plan? I'd be surprised if discounts on third party services actually changes anyone's choices on where to work. "Oh, I want to work there because I get discounts on Netflix and plane tickets and for a lawyer I may never need."

I completely agree and that's the way it should be. Pay me, stop trying to find "benefits" for me.

 

[civvver]

Wouldn't you rather they just pay you the money currently they're spending on now needless health insurance coverage? Why continue to tie health insurance coverage to employers at all?

(also speaking from Australia, when you've got a universal healthcare system, the continued existence of private insurance can easily be mostly a rip-off for the people buying it, and an excuse to shortchange access and limit funding of the universal system, so that ain't great)

That will never happen. It's the same flawed logic that when trump's corporate tax cuts went through business would give that money back to employees as wage increases. We got a couple PR stunts with companies like walmart offering small bonuses, but they were going to have to do that anyway due to the low unemployment. Majority of businesses just pocketed the money or returned it to shareholders and ceos.

That's why the only means of funding I'll support is if the business have to take what they are spending now and ship it to the government as taxes to pay for the universal health coverage. If it's a personal tax or anything and suddenly companies don't have to provide insurance or as much funding for health care they'll just pocket that cost as profits.

I completely agree and that's the way it should be. Pay me, stop trying to find "benefits" for me.

That's what everyone wants but there are a ton of steps to get there. It would have to be regulated or companies simply won't do it cus there isn't enough competition for employees.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

That will never happen. It's the same flawed logic that when trump's corporate tax cuts went through business would give that money back to employees as wage increases. We got a couple PR stunts with companies like walmart offering small bonuses, but they were going to have to do that anyway due to the low unemployment. Majority of businesses just pocketed the money or returned it to shareholders and ceos.

That's why the only means of funding I'll support is if the business have to take what they are spending now and ship it to the government as taxes to pay for the universal health coverage. If it's a personal tax or anything and suddenly companies don't have to provide insurance or as much funding for health care they'll just pocket that cost as profits.

I agree. If the money isn't appropriated from them, it will just go back to the C-Suite.

 

[Arwon]

That will never happen. It's the same flawed logic that when trump's corporate tax cuts went through business would give that money back to employees as wage increases. We got a couple PR stunts with companies like walmart offering small bonuses, but they were going to have to do that anyway due to the low unemployment. Majority of businesses just pocketed the money or returned it to shareholders and ceos.

That's why the only means of funding I'll support is if the business have to take what they are spending now and ship it to the government as taxes to pay for the universal health coverage. If it's a personal tax or anything and suddenly companies don't have to provide insurance or as much funding for health care they'll just pocket that cost as profits.

I mean it's presently part of the total remuneration package. Just do the sound public policy thing, legislate that the same total remuneration has to persist but be transferred to actual salary/wages, fund an enforcement body, and jail the recalcitrant capitalists for theft.

Yea, well there are these things that corporations over here do called kickbacks that means I can get a lawyer on retainer for cheaper than normal because its a "benefit". Meaning my company gets something out of offering all its employees this legal service. I don't imagine that will go away with Medicare for all it will just shift to supplemental insurance for those who want that kind of thing.

That's why you also tax businesses for those sorts of fringe benefits at the value of what's provided. It's remuneration, and whether it's a parking spot, a free car or access to legal services, companies shouldn't be using non cash benefits to reduce salaries for the sole purpose of reducing their tax burden like that.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I mean it's presently part of the total remuneration package. Just do the sound public policy thing, legislate that the same total remuneration has to persist but be transferred to actual salary/wages, fund an enforcement body, and jail the recalcitrant capitalists for theft.

Oh man this would be sweet but would never pass. This would be a huge boost to the economy though.