Can you start a war without being in it?

[MaximusParthas]

Can you start a war without being in it?
Just curious as to if and what can be done.
I've move civs in the direction of war by settling extra close to a civ and then giving the city to whoever I wanted to be at war. Sometimes the AI would take the defenceless city.

 

[cgannon64]

Not really. The only ways to start a war between two third parties is to sign an MPP with one Civ and then declare war on another, or to sign a MA with a Civ against another.

You CAN choose not to send troops, however.

 

[Raijer]

Originally posted by cgannon64
You CAN choose not to send troops, however.

I do this a lot.

I'll pry some overseas Civ with a tech (they LOVE the techs!), and sign a MA against his neighbor (especially for vengence). Sure, F4 shows we're at "war," but like the hippies like to say: "Hell no, we won't go!." (Yeah right, like I'm gonna send my fleet of gallies filled with horseman right over.) Or maybe I'll just let the two chumps punch each other out.

 

[Globetrotter]

Actually, i did start a war without being involved in it, a war that lasted throughout the game.

That was long time back on vanilla civ 1.29f

I was playing as Persia, and had the Zulus, the Babylonians, the Indians and the Russains as powerful neighbours.
I was at war with Russia, and took one of their cities, Rostov, near the Babylonian frontier. I made peace with Russia. Rostov held 2 incense in its surroundings. Then, i saw lots of Babylonian troops heading towards Rostov (1 tile away), only defended by a warrior down to 1 hp. I moved out the warrior, and gave the city to the Zulus. The city was now undefended, and next turn, the Babylonians attacked the city, claiming the incense. They declared war on the Zulus. The next turn, India joined the Zulus, and Russia joined the Babs.
Not more than 3 turns later, all the 15 civs were at war, and i was just there watching. It felt great.

(for info, i ended up loosing this Deity game to the Zulus, as they built a spaceship)

 

[Raijer]

I've tried this before a couple of time, and it hasn't worked yet!! I was once at war with Persia, who had mad stacks of Immortal doom deep in my territory. I tried signing MAs with all my neighbors, but no bribe was high enough. That's when I tried forcing the strongest neighbor, Greece, into the war. Just as the Persian troops massed outside one of my towns, I gave the town to Alexander as a gift. The next turn, the Persians all got up, skirted that town altogether, and march all the way to my next one! Even thought the Greeks were easy pickin's, I guess Xerxes had it out for me.

Maybe the key to this strategy is the location of resources/lux within the borders.

 

[Globetrotter]

The thing is, it is quite tricky:
The city must remain unprotected and the Persians should be on an adjacent tile, not a couple of tiles away (cause this will give Alexander the time to rush a unit in there, and the Persians will no longer attack) AND having resources nearby is a great plus, especially if the Persians don't have any of it.

 

[Raijer]

Cool. Got it. Persia was right outside the borders (two tiles), and a Hoplite was rushed to protect the city. Although it still seems weird Xerxes didn't take it anyway, as there was scant difference between NO protection and ONE lone little Hoplite, compared to the massive stacks of doom Persia had on the map. I guess it goes to show that these things have to be played just right...

Thanks for the tip Globetrotter!

 

[Sparrow3]

At first oppertunity, I think I will try this.

1. Civ A, Civ B, and Civ C(I am Civ C).

2. Civ A combat unit crosses my border and approaches one of my cities. I will remove my forces and give it to Civ B. It has been said here that AI units head for undefended cities. So should the Civ A unit not attempt to occupy the Civ B city?

3. At the same time, I will attempt to block any Civ B forces from approaching the city. Thus insuring Civ A plenty of time to take it.

If the gambit works, Civ A and Civ B should very quickly go to war. Ideally, the situation would involve a city in a three cornered border area so they don't march over you on the way to kill each other.

How adout it? Does any one think this will work?

 

[Raijer]

Sounds reasonable enough. Fill us in on your gambit results!

 

[Alpine Trooper]

Certain factors the AI also takes in can determine wether or not it decides to declare war on Civ B. Do they have active trades? Is the city worth it? What improvments does the city have? What is the AI to AI agression level? Were they recently at war? Can Civ B handle opening two fronts of war?

Im just checking if you get the picture : a lot is taken into consideration by the AI and things have to be just right for it to decide to take that city.

 

[MaximusParthas]

It's worked for me a few times, but not always. About a 75% chance it seems.
You can increase that chance also. trap the forces right in front of the defensive city. Use fast units to surround them, leaving the only opening the city itself.
I've used this tactic to best effect by building 1 single city within someones empire. Eventual you can count on an eviction notice. "Like clockwork" Usualy after the discoveries of Ironworking/military tradition/industrialization.
Have a "hit list" available and when your about to be invaded, pull the switch trick and give it to whoever's on top of your list..
The only thing I build in those cities are military units.

 

[Globetrotter]

Originally posted by Raijer
I guess it goes to show that these things have to be played just right...

Thanks for the tip Globetrotter!

My pleasure
Besides, make sure to also read the other guys tips, regarding having trades, the size/importance of city, etc.

Good luck

 

[Tsargrad]

It sort of happened today.. The game was over due to diplomatic win but I kept going. I thought enough is enough, so I invaded China. I was Russia and had a pact with Japan...

Then next turn, Japan joined me with war against China.. So China gets England and France to declare war on Japan.. France declares war on me too, but England doesn't.. Well then the Babylons and Indians join the part to declare war on China, England and France due to a pact with Japan, but yet they aren't an ally of mine..
The Germans who were left out for 1 or 2 turns is invaded by Japan who call on Babylons, Indians and myself to attack.. So really by one invasion the others all joined in.

Still early stages, but the war is in the colonies (middle of the continent full of scattered cities of all nationalities pillaging resources - which incidentally is my northern border.. Chinese war rages in the east)

 

[CIVPhilzilla]

Well I was playing, and the Arabs decided that they could pick on me America by demanding techs from me. I'm like screw you, then I bribed everybody in the world to go to war with them. Sure it was more expensive to do that then just give into the Arabs, but I was able to cripple my biggest rival, slow the rate at which the AI advanced and by the time the Arabs got to my coast with ironclads, I had destroyers blowing the **** out of them.

 

[Sarevok]

i stir anger alot, and i get to strat wars with my MPP's

 

[bkwrm79]

I miss being able to incite a war. I've had fun in Civ II... bribe someone to attack someone else, then maybe support them with the occasional tech, if necessary even give them a unit or two, but keep your own cities out of it by not officially being part of the war.

Of course you don't get any territorial gains that way either, but sometimes you aren't ready for expansion.

 

[Globetrotter]

But in these 3 last posts, you guys had actually declared wars.
The point was to make the AI declare war against another AI, without actually declaring war

 

[bkwrm79]

They really should add that option... but there should be a chance that the Civ you target can find out you were behind the move, and declare war on you.

 

[Smellincoffee]

Redudant: Sorry.

 

[kb2tvl]

I have seen ai declare war because one ai is going to finish a wonder before they do. This is pretty common really and a player might get caught in this if you will edge out another civ's wonder building progress.

So, if you play attention to who had been building for a long time and sell them techs that will encourage each other to declare war on each other.