Can you support or vote for the GOP without doing harm to minorities and women?

[Gorbles]

those deemed to be racists/bigots/neo-Nazis, yes, execution

Can you point specifically to the proposed legislation that would actually make this happen? We're discussing actual harm, helped or otherwise enabled by a vote for the party. Ignoring for a second the whataboutism, I'm really puzzled by the fact you think this is real.

 

[luiz]

GenMarshall: nobody here in OT is (at least openly) a part of the "extreme" left. I'm willing to bet, such is your hyperbole, that you've never actually met anyone more left than the folks in this forum. This is how far the Overton window in general online discourse has shifted.

??
There are plenty of openly and radically anti-capitalist posters here, even a few old school Marxists.

Don't get me wrong, it's great to have a diversity of opinions, and I enjoy the non-mainstream leftists far more than the Disneyfied SJWs who predominate. But I'm completely puzzled as how you can say nobody is part of the extreme left. What would you call people who view nation states and border as illegitimate, people who would shut down the stock market, people who would expropriate private property, etc etc?

 

[Cloud_Strife]

It only seems radical if you've bought into the idea that capitalism is some sort of inherent base from which we all start.

It isn't.

 

[luiz]

It only seems radical if you've bought into the idea that capitalism is some sort of inherent base from which we all start.

It isn't.

It's radically against the status quo and the political choices made by most people in democracies. Which doesn't mean it's wrong or bad, but does mean it's radical.

 

[Gorbles]

??
There are plenty of openly and radically anti-capitalist posters here, even a few old school Marxists.

Don't get me wrong, it's great to have a diversity of opinions, and I enjoy the non-mainstream leftists far more than the Disneyfied SJWs who predominate. But I'm completely puzzled as how you can say nobody is part of the extreme left. What would you call people who view nation states and border as illegitimate, people who would shut down the stock market, people who would expropriate private property, etc etc?

Deleted my previous post, sorry; read the wrong quote (somehow). I need more coffee.

There are plenty of anti-capitalist posters here. That doesn't qualify them for whatever is meant by the "extreme" left. For one, it completely discounts the existence of anarchism as a political (and personal) ideology, or where anarchist views sit throughout the traditional left-to-right spectrum (throughout it, at least in my experience). It also shapes the discourse by whatever you or GenMarshall consider to be extreme. The US is at the stage where the UK's concept of the NHS seems like a unrealistic communist nightmare. That's not something anyone can reasonably talk about the "extreme" left in comparison to.

I stand by my bet. I'm anti-capitalist, but I can tell you with absolute 100% sincerity: I know far more "extreme" or otherwise hardline leftists.

 

[luiz]

Deleted my previous post, sorry; read the wrong quote (somehow). I need more coffee.

There are plenty of anti-capitalist posters here. That doesn't qualify them for whatever is meant by the "extreme" left. For one, it completely discounts the existence of anarchism as a political (and personal) ideology, or where anarchist views sit throughout the traditional left-to-right spectrum (throughout it, at least in my experience). It also shapes the discourse by whatever you or GenMarshall consider to be extreme. The US is at the stage where the UK's concept of the NHS seems like a unrealistic communist nightmare. That's not something anyone can reasonably talk about the "extreme" left in comparison to.

I stand by my bet. I'm anti-capitalist, but I can tell you with absolute 100% sincerity: I know far more "extreme" or otherwise hardline leftists.

But there are old school Marxists here. Almost by definition they're "extreme left". I also believe anarchists are extreme left, indeed typically the anarchists consider themselves to be further left than Marxists.

This forum in general is very left-wing, which is why anti-capitalist positions may seem mainstream. But they aren't.

 

[Estebonrober]

But there are old school Marxists here. Almost by definition they're "extreme left". I also believe anarchists are extreme left, indeed typically the anarchists consider themselves to be further left than Marxists.

This forum in general is very left-wing, which is why anti-capitalist positions may seem mainstream. But they aren't.

I mean there may be as many of those as there are libertarians which I would consider extreme right if a marxist is extreme left. I think this forum if far better balanced than you guys give credit for and a lot of this is just whining.

 

[cardgame]

It's radically against the status quo and the political choices made by most people in democracies. Which doesn't mean it's wrong or bad, but does mean it's radical.

Implying most people make political choices instead of having political events thrust upon them.

 

[luiz]

Implying most people make political choices instead of having political events thrust upon them.

What is voting if not making a political choice?

 

[IglooDame]

I mean there may be as many of those as there are libertarians which I would consider extreme right if a marxist is extreme left. I think this forum if far better balanced than you guys give credit for and a lot of this is just whining.

Hey, don't be lumping me in with these right-wing nuts.

I mean, I'm kidding, sorta, but there's economic and social axes of left-right and extremism. Like most libertarians, economically I'm on the right side and socially I'm well into leftiness.

 

[Estebonrober]

Hey, don't be lumping me in with these right-wing nuts.

I mean, I'm kidding, sorta, but there's economic and social axes of left-right and extremism. Like most libertarians, economically I'm on the right side and socially I'm well into leftiness.

Yea this is my point, I'm sure many conservatives here lump me in with leftists. I'm on record as being a capitalist I just believe it should be highly regulated and redistrubuted as necessary. Which in 2020 was like 30 years ago.

I do support the point of antifa, that seems to be a big sticking point lol

 

[EgonSpengler]

Hey, don't be lumping me in with these right-wing nuts.

I mean, I'm kidding, sorta, but there's economic and social axes of left-right and extremism. Like most libertarians, economically I'm on the right side and socially I'm well into leftiness.

I think that's pretty common in New England. I know a lot of folks who would describe themselves that way, if they bothered to describe themselves at all. Bill Weld was on the radio last week, and he described himself that way, in an effort to appeal to Massachusetts conservatives. Massachusetts frequently elects a Republican for governor, but rarely sends a Republican to congress, and I think it's related to the OP's question: I think many Massachusetts conservatives and moderates want to keep the national Republican Party at arm's length, and can't abide a lot of religious-conservative positions on social issues.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I do support the point of antifa, that seems to be a big sticking point lol

Honestly I feel that the specter of antifa as denounced by the right is far more real than actual antifa.

 

[cardgame]

What is voting if not making a political choice?

The voting popultion is actually a minority, iirc. And what is a choice when the answers are pre-determined? (Guaranteed red or blue state making your vote worthless thanks to FPTP, disenfranchisement via more localized gerrymandering with voter districts, Florida 2000, etc.). The inputs are somewhat predetermined too, by media coverage, by advertising dollars (money spent is extremely well correlated with elections won) etc.

I maintain that most people have not made a significant political choice, outside of local elections for city and county.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I think the evidence for paid advertisement spending on campaign outcomes is a mixed bag at best; i.e. if one candidate spent $50,000 and another spent twice that, it wouldn't really have any effect on the vote.

I do not know if people have credibly measured the outcomes of non-paid media campaigns and media bias (either for or against a candidate).

 

[JPetroski]

I think that's pretty common in New England. I know a lot of folks who would describe themselves that way, if they bothered to describe themselves at all. Bill Weld was on the radio last week, and he described himself that way, in an effort to appeal to Massachusetts conservatives. Massachusetts frequently elects a Republican for governor, but rarely sends a Republican to congress, and I think it's related to the OP's question: I think many Massachusetts conservatives and moderates want to keep the national Republican Party at arm's length, and can't abide a lot of religious-conservative positions on social issues.

I'd agree with this and would say the same about Connecticut.

 

[rah]

Texas is turning purple. I expect it to be blue in 10 or so years.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Texas is turning purple. I expect it to be blue in 10 or so years.

They can stretch that out by continuing to purge voter rolls and gerrymandering.

We've all been waiting for demographics to boot out the GOP for 20 years and it's always 10 years off.

 

[rah]

Seeing the change over the last 40 years in California has been real.
It will be real in Texas soon also. If Texas turns, the Republicans are finished as a viable party.

 

[EgonSpengler]

Seeing the change over the last 40 years in California has been real.
It will be real in Texas soon also. If Texas turns, the Republicans are finished as a viable party.

This is why they've turned to manipulating the system and trying things like voter ID laws and throwing roadblocks in front of Florida returning voting rights to felons who've served their sentence. They see the writing on the wall as clearly as anyone.