Canada is Socialist.

Pellaken

The one and only.
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the title of this was made to be provackative. please dont reply and say "no its not" cause I know its not. especialy for someone from Sweden to say this. but most people who surf the forums are american, and compared to america, Canada is socialist. Is this really bad? well, thats what we will discuss.

The Good
Canada has a number of outragous socialist things, like the fact that the government pays for our educaiton, below grade 12, and that they pay older people pensions, as well as giving welfare to those that are not working (yes, these are all socialist belifs. communisim dident fail, it merged with capatlisim to create what we have today) in canada, these things are pretty well the same as in the US. people in canada can retire at 65, but some retire earlier, and with some penalities, the government will still give you money.
Canada has 3 toll highways. the 407, which runs north of Toronto. a section of the 104, in Nova Scotia, and a section of highway 5 in BC. there were plans to put a toll on highway 2, in New Brunswisk, but there was such backlash, that the party supporting eliminating tolls won a landslide in the last election, and they did away with them {there were other reasons they won too} another reason for removing the tolls was because highway 2 was part of the Trans-Canada. this highway spans the nation. half the funding is provided by the federal government, the rest by the province. it tends to be well-maintained, and is a major transporation link for millions. our major highway would have to be the 401. which runs though totonto and southern ontario. it has an average of 12-16 lanes total, and moves millions a way. highway's 400, 404, in ontario, and 20 and 40 in quebec are also major arteries. if you look at a map of the 2 naitons, where toll roads are a seperate color {lets say, like the map I have, non-toll is blue, and toll is purple} you will see the US is a very purple country, compared to canada, which is blue.
in Canada, the government regulates electricty prices. this keeps them from 'raping' this consumers, by charging them higher prices then they can afford. in Canada, you DIE without electricty and heat, and Canadians just arent willing to stomach that.
In Canada, our government pays for a large portion of tuition to university. what inspired me to write this was hearing of a girl that went to a univerity in rhode island, payed herself, and worked full-time 40 hours a week. sometimes she had to give up studing just to work. she went from a grade A student, to failing some courses, cause she had to work so much. all this effort into work, and she still ended $40,000 in debt. in canadian money, thats like $60,000, and even that is a few thousand short. I'd rather kil myself then go that far into debt, frankley. Canada has a comprehensive student-loan program to pay for the parts of the university that you cannot pay for. tuition is high here, but atleast I wont need to go into bankrupsey after university... I hope I wont need to... anyways, when I'm Prime Minister, the government will make university education eathier much cheaper or free! a 66% reduction is, I think, best, though.
in canada, we have the government funded CBC. a major media company. as far as I know, the largest, geographically, in the world. we have CBC radio which every canadian can pick up on thier radio, we have CBC TV, which most canadians can pick up on thier TV's. the CBC is a very good thing, in short. in canada we have the government funded airline, Air Canada. it is rather large, and has a near monopoly over air flights in canada. It has failed as a business, however. the government needed to bail it out.
one of the biggest socialist things we have is public health care. it means then when I go to the doctors, like I will do tomarrow, that I dont have to pay anything. it means if I get sick and have to go to the hospital, and take an ambulance, like I have, that I dont have to pay anything. certain things are not covered. mostley the 'big' tings. I dont think that that radiation cancer treatment is covered, for instance. but most basic health care things are covered by the government.

The Bad
these things cause problems. as canadians know, our health care system is failing. like the US, our education system has flaws, and as prevousley states, Air Canada is a falure. like the extreme example of the USSR, we can see the problem. socialist businesses are more then just oxymorons, they are things that dont work unless work is put into making them work. our health care system is worse then that of the US, so are most of our other government funded tings that the US government dosent fund. why? simple, profit helps these companies do better, and the government wants the poor to afford things, so profit takes a hit. weather you'd rather see a company give you a grade A item, and have somone not afford it, or have a grade B item, that everyone can afford. is up to you. after reading all of this, I hope you'd choose the latter when it comes to needed items.

The Ugly
one of the worst things about the canadian system has to be the taxes. gas on PEI is 74.1 cents per liter. thats canadian money, though, so its about 55.7 US. per gallon, that would be $2.228 per gallon we also pay, in PEI, 17.7% sales tax. most of canada, its 15%. we pay higher income taxes too. property taxes are, last I recall about 7%, here. in the end, 51-53% of all the money we make, in canada, goes to the government. I have lived with it, so its possible. with the lower cost for things (since the government pays for it) I think it pretty well balances out. all we are really doing is "robbing from the rish to give to the poor" ah, that robin hood... a socialist at heart :)


so this is my country. the land I love. yet I find it odd... most canadians are just happy "not to be the USA" :)
 
Don't three provinces in Canada, Ontario, BC and Alberta, effectively subsidize the other provinces and territories? If so, I'd include that in the bad or ugly portion of your text.

I also find it odd that "most canadians are just happy 'not to be the USA'." Aren't there other, more important things about Canada to be proud of?
 
Originally posted by Pellaken
no, thats not bas. especially if you dont live tehre :D

Right. I forgot, it's all part of the socialism, which is a good thing:rolleyes: :lol:
 
Originally posted by Pellaken
The Good
Canada has a number of outragous socialist things, like the fact that the government pays for our educaiton, below grade 12, and that they pay older people pensions, as well as giving welfare to those that are not working (yes, these are all socialist belifs. communisim dident fail, it merged with capatlisim to create what we have today) in canada, these things are pretty well the same as in the US. people in canada can retire at 65, but some retire earlier, and with some penalities, the government will still give you money.

I had to pay for books and stuff in high school.

Like $100-$150 a year.

But we lived on welfare for 6 years after my parents got divorced, my mother couldn't work anymore because of back problems and the fact that she was in her late 30ies, single mother with 3 children.....so we didn't have much choice. We didn't live comfortably.....but we lived.

so this is my country. the land I love. yet I find it odd... most canadians are just happy "not to be the USA" :)

That is true. :)
 
What do Canadians take pride in? This is a serious question. It looks to this American like the biggest part of Canadian identity is that they aren't Americans. Seems odd to me.
 
Originally posted by Switch625
What do Canadians take pride in? This is a serious question. It looks to this American like the biggest part of Canadian identity is that they aren't Americans. Seems odd to me.

Americans and Canadians are very similar. As we all know.

Besides our superior hockey skillz and more peaceful and giving nature, we are nearly identical.

The "not being American" is the only thing that allows us not to have a big target painted on large Canadian cities. People that hate America....hate American friends....this is true, however....if we get much closer as allies (without the rest of the world getting closer too) we will be commiting national sucide.

Let me theroize for a moment.....If Canada and the USA would allow free movement between the two countries.....what's to stop all Canadians to moving to a warmer climate? American Cities would experience overcrowding, and Canadian cities would experience huge migration. This would make the poorer provinces even worst off...as the people there would leave in favor of more opportunities. Of course....what's to stop Americans from seeking a cooler climate and free healthcare. And migrating North. Overcrowding Canadian cities, draining our public resources, taking away our employment opportunities.

Any merger would have to be total...and complete. With safeguards in place to ensure neither of these two scenarios happen too quickly.

I know for one that Newfoundland is a dieing province......I see many of my friends leaving to find work..............but as you can tell...I'm already way off topic.
 
Originally posted by Switch625
What do Canadians take pride in? This is a serious question. It looks to this American like the biggest part of Canadian identity is that they aren't Americans. Seems odd to me.


Pellaken
"no its not"


Don't accept this socialism crap as representing ALL Canadians.
We Kick despot ass all the time. The Canadian Government always does the cultured humanity song & dance, (So does the American) then we sent in the troops. We do pretty damn good considering our population.

We I take pride in the same things you do, Freedom, Democracy, Science and quality of our products, and our contribution to manitaining freedom in the world.

I'm proud to be a Canadian, I'd be proud to be British or
American or Australian or a New Zealander too. It all about
values to me.

P.S. Socialism Sucks
 
Originally posted by Ozz
P.S. Socialism Sucks

Have you ever lived in the US? Or a more free market system?

I have.....and socialism doesn't suck. It's bad for the rich...but good for the poor.

And quite frankly...the rich are already rich...and don't need help. The poor however...need all the help they can get. That goes for children (education) too.
 
Question for the Canadians,

I don't know too much about the current state of Canadian politics, but which party or coalition of parties would likely be in power if Quebec were to leave Canada? Would the liberals in Ontario still be dominant without the support of their Quebecois friends?
 
Originally posted by NY Hoya
Question for the Canadians,

I don't know too much about the current state of Canadian politics, but which party or coalition of parties would likely be in power if Quebec were to leave Canada? Would the liberals in Ontario still be dominant without the support of their Quebecois friends?

I think the Liberals are dominate everywhere....so it wouldn't really matter.
 
Originally posted by CornMaster
I think the Liberals are dominate everywhere....so it wouldn't really matter.

damn, that sucks for Canada;) You should thank your lucky stars that you get to live in the U.S.:p
 
Originally posted by CornMaster


Americans and Canadians are very similar. As we all know.

Besides our superior hockey skillz and more peaceful and giving nature, we are nearly identical.

Peaceful? Perhaps. More giving? Nuh uh. Americans give more to charity per capita than any other nation. The United States spends more on foreign aid than any other nation.

The "not being American" is the only thing that allows us not to have a big target painted on large Canadian cities. People that hate America....hate American friends....this is true, however....if we get much closer as allies (without the rest of the world getting closer too) we will be commiting national sucide.

Now this is just silly. "National suicide?" I guess Britain is headed for "national suicide" because of how staunch an ally of the US it is. And take a look in the mirror. The Canadians are elbow to elbow with the United States in this war against terrorism. If you guys were ever going to have a big target painted on you, you'd already have it.

Let me theroize for a moment.....If Canada and the USA would allow free movement between the two countries.....what's to stop all Canadians to moving to a warmer climate? American Cities would experience overcrowding, and Canadian cities would experience huge migration. This would make the poorer provinces even worst off...as the people there would leave in favor of more opportunities. Of course....what's to stop Americans from seeking a cooler climate and free healthcare. And migrating North. Overcrowding Canadian cities, draining our public resources, taking away our employment opportunities.

Any merger would have to be total...and complete. With safeguards in place to ensure neither of these two scenarios happen too quickly..

I really doubt anything like this would happen. Movement is pretty free already, and no mass exodus is happening. It's not like you guys need the Windsor Wall to keep your populace at home. There would be greater travel and economic activity, which would lead to a few more people relocating from one place to another, but I can't imagine a mass migration like you suggest. All things being equal, more people than not tend to stay in the general area they were born in. That won't change, because the differences between the US and Canada aren't great enough to make whole societies uproot and move.

I know for one that Newfoundland is a dieing province......I see many of my friends leaving to find work..............but as you can tell...I'm already way off topic.

Actually, you aren't off topic. I did ask.
 
Originally posted by NY Hoya


damn, that sucks for Canada;) You should thank your lucky stars that you get to live in the U.S.:p

Why???

I like the Liberal Party.

I think Chretien has done an awesome job. You don't get elected for three terms for doing a bad job. ;)

Quite frankly.....Bush's reign is going to much shorter and less fruitful than Chretien's....Besides the fact that Chretien has already served more years (9) and terms (3) then Bush can.....
 
Originally posted by Switch625
Peaceful? Perhaps. More giving? Nuh uh. Americans give more to charity per capita than any other nation. The United States spends more on foreign aid than any other nation.

USA is the first spender on foreign aid on absolute numbers. When it comes to relatives numbers, it's about one of the last of the developped countries.
 
Originally posted by CornMaster
Why???

I like the Liberal Party.

I was just kidding. I know you like the Liberal Party.

Originally posted by CornMaster
I think Chretien has done an awesome job. You don't get elected for three terms for doing a bad job. ;)

Quite frankly.....Bush's reign is going to much shorter and less fruitful than Chretien's....Besides the fact that Chretien has already served more years (9) and terms (3) then Bush can.....

Well, as you know I'm no expert on Canadian politics, but I'd guess that Chretien's continued reign over Canada has something to do with the fact that the Liberal party is anxious to appease the Quebecois. Not that he's done a bad job though.

I don't agree with everything Bush has done, but I think he's doing a fair job so far. I think he's definitely done a better job than his predecessor or Gore would have done in reaction to 9/11. He pulled out of Kyoto, but that was never going to be ratified by our Senate anway. The economy was entering into recession before he took office due to the dotcom bubble burst in early 2000 and has come out of it over the past two quarters. Not that I think presidents have much effect, if any, on recessions. And although I think he's too lenient on the Palestinians and some of the arab dictatorships other than Iraq (Saudi Arabia), there would be worldwide outrage at any tougher policies. And that's pretty much it, he really hasn't had time for much else. I'd give more in depth comments on Bush, but I think I've already threadjacked enough....
 
Originally posted by Switch625
Peaceful? Perhaps. More giving? Nuh uh. Americans give more to charity per capita than any other nation. The United States spends more on foreign aid than any other nation.

Americans have much more to give......

Now this is just silly. "National suicide?" I guess Britain is headed for "national suicide" because of how staunch an ally of the US it is. And take a look in the mirror. The Canadians are elbow to elbow with the United States in this war against terrorism. If you guys were ever going to have a big target painted on you, you'd already have it.

This is a tough place for me to argue....I've always said that bigger countries are the way to go....mergers of smaller countries into larger ones.....and people against these mergers are backward thinking morons.

So you see how this is conflicting. ;)

There are definitally some advantages to be had for both countries......however...as most people have stated...a joining of the two countries would most definitally be on American terms. And I for one aren't willing to give up what we have....and we have a lot...regardless of higher taxes, smaller army, and harsher climate.

I really doubt anything like this would happen. Movement is pretty free already, and no mass exodus is happening. It's not like you guys need the Windsor Wall to keep your populace at home. There would be greater travel and economic activity, which would lead to a few more people relocating from one place to another, but I can't imagine a mass migration like you suggest. All things being equal, more people than not tend to stay in the general area they were born in. That won't change, because the differences between the US and Canada aren't great enough to make whole societies uproot and move.

I see this happening now. Not everyone would move...but eventually they will die...and then no one is left!

Why do you think I'm here? There are no opportunities in Newfoundland....

One of these things would happen in a merger:
A) American investment would come in and bolster the local economy.
B) American investment would come in and rape the natural resources.
C) Nothing would happen, and Newfoundlanders would continue to feel the brain drain currently going on.

The first two of these situations can be initiated by the same thing.....American investment.

The reason I say that is because a foregin company offered to buy our water. (Newfoundland has a huge amount of fresh water) The would collect the water, and ship it to bottling plants outside the country. They were about to go through with the deal, until a local group got a hold of the contract....which had a clause which basically said, once they start taking the water, they will stop when they want. Not when we run out of water.......but when they decided they had enough. We couldn't stop them from taking water...and they could take the water from anywhere they wanted....

From there on....I've been weary of foregin investments......of course Hiberna, and Churchill Falls should have been the first clue. ;)
 
Originally posted by CornMaster


Have you ever lived in the US? Or a more free market system?

I have.....and socialism doesn't suck. It's bad for the rich...but good for the poor.

And quite frankly...the rich are already rich...and don't need help. The poor however...need all the help they can get. That goes for children (education) too.

Yes I have lived and worked in the states.

The rich don't pay the tab, the poor do and socialism keeps them
poor (and controlled). Half of the entire accounting profession is devoted to making sure the rich don't pay.

Frankly I don't consider welfare, UIC, education as socialism,
they are just plain common sense. Socialism is where the
government sucks in vast amounts of money and does "social
engineering" with it by redistributing the wealth.

Socialism kills initiative, A bus driver or postman or any other government flunkly makes as much as a college or University grad. This causes the Brain Drain to the U.S. , nepotism is the
path to success in socialism.

If socialism works so well, Why are you in the US, Why did
I work in the US? Because the States rewards initiative and
education. And that IMHO is why they have grown into
a country of 300 million (they didn't go to Canada) and
are the leading financial and sciencific power in the world.
 
Originally posted by NY Hoya
Well, as you know I'm no expert on Canadian politics, but I'd guess that Chretien's continued reign over Canada has something to do with the fact that the Liberal party is anxious to appease the Quebecois. Not that he's done a bad job though.

I was unaware that the Liberals were around to appease Quebec.

I thought that what the Bloc Quebecois was for. ;)

I don't agree with everything Bush has done,

Hey we got something in common.....of course...I don't believe ANYTHING he done is good.

I think he's definitely done a better job than his predecessor or Gore would have done in reaction to 9/11.

Clinton was the man. The only recent US President that seemed to get things done....and not drag the US into a pointless war.

He pulled out of Kyoto, but that was never going to be ratified by our Senate anway.

Regardless....anything to help prolong humans stay on this earth is a good thing....rejecting an environmental treaty....is a bad move.

The economy was entering into recession before he took office due to the dotcom bubble burst in early 2000 and has come out of it over the past two quarters.

That's what some people claim......but I think the recession was due to the fact people knew the new president was either going to be dumb ass Bush...or Robot Gore. And quite frankly.....I lost confidence in everything.....

I'd give more in depth comments on Bush, but I think I've already threadjacked enough....

That would be a bad threadjacking.........so I'll stop too.....Truce? :)
 
Originally posted by CornMaster

I think Chretien has done an awesome job. You don't get elected for three terms for doing a bad job. ;)

Chretien's a joke :rolleyes: He's corrupt, arrogant, a total flake...the country's stagnating with each passing day with his smug little "let's get me a fourth term and get in the history books" ass in power. The faster he gets out, the faster the Liberals gain some semblance of credibility.

You get elected for three terms in a row when there's nobody else worth voting for, and when you waste our taxes subsidizing dead-end industries in eastern Canada, among other handouts, so they'll vote you back in.

Oh, did I mention senile? "Our military's in great shape. They have all the tools they need..." :mad:
 
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