Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Stevo_D, Oct 20, 2005.
"Huge difference in History" : like...MALI ?!
Canada is a nation, not a civilization. We all like Canada enough, they seem to be fine people and while they have some odd governmental proclivities (that is, non-American ones), they're overall swell folks and we're glad to have them as neighbors. However, they're no more suited to "civilization" status than Brazil, Argentina, Norway, Indonesia, Sudan or a hundred other nations.
- They've never ruled vast areas of the world through conquest (or any other way).
- They've never launched a space vehicle (although they did build the remote control arm for the shuttle)
- They haven't founded any great religions.
- They've only existed for a couple of hundred years.
- They're not very populous.
- It's too darned cold up there. 3/4 of their country is ice tiles!
Ice tiles is your reasoning for not having canada in the game? Maybe it is just a poor map. I have lawyas noticed this about Civilization world maps, north america is always disproportionate compared to reality. Canada's roots go back deeper than those of the United States and yet "America" still made it into civilization. The US a host of other "civilizations" never founded any religions. Granted we aren't the most populus country but but smaller ones have made it into civ. As far as space viehicles go, NASA stands for North American Space Agency. There is lots of Canadians and Canadian technology going into space in those shuttles. So many people are too quick to dismiss Canada without looking at the ones who have made it in.
You are right for the most part. There is a leadership vacume at the federal level. Every one realises that this will probably the last election with Steven Harper heading up the party. Your list of people who shouldn't be in the party missed Rob Anders, and I can't believe you would include Myron Thompson though. I am glad the conservatives opposed same sex marriage that is one of the reasons I will continue to vote for them. The only thing that made me really laugh is Brian Toben, John Manely, Allan Rock and Frank McKenna appealing to all of Canada.
I lived in Ontario for over 20 years. People there are concerned about their own well-being over the well-being of others, just like in Quebec or the maritimes or the west. But there is now - and always has been - large support for the Conservative party there. The province now has a provincial government that's Liberal, but it's a government on the heels of successive Conservative (fiscal and social) majority governments.
To be honest, I don't find the level of ignorance here any better. Some here don't seem to understand that northern Ontario and southern Ontario vote differently, and many don't realize that the driver in the south is big business - the very same force that drives Alberta politics.
You do remember that Kilgor jumped ship from the Conversatives to the Liberals, right? He switched to an independent (the second time he's jumped from the party that his constituents voted for!) because he wasn't exactly welcomed back in the Tory party. In the end, all he was trying to do was distance himself from the Gomery Liberals.
Stronach, yeah. It was a power play for her, pure and simple. She wasn't, however, a socail Conservative - only a fiscal one (but then again, this Liberal government is fiscally conservative). It's further testament to the fact that party lines mean nothing to many Canadians.
Canada wont make it because they arnt seen by the world as a "real" country, they are thought of as a satelite nation. During the 1700's colony, 1800's satelite of Great Britain, 1900's satelite of great britain, 1950's+ satelite of US.
Why, thank you. I think the US is peachy-keen, too...well, most of it.
But at the end of the day Firaxis is concerned mainly with market. Civ choices stem from those they feel would make the game to most fun, and those they feel consumers most want to see.
There isn't anything deeper at work. If, by some odd chance, Canadians accounted for a larger portion of sales you'd see some effort to integrate them into the game at some level.
Actually, Canada pioneered communications satellite technology and made huge contributions to the Hubble Telescope, Lunar rover and Mars Sojourner. We've never launched from Canadian soil, no.
Well, that's true for most of the civs in the game, if you are referring to a major, global religion.
[pquote]They've only existed for a couple of hundred years.[/quote]
...like the US.
But moreso that the Aztec or Inca empires, or, hell, *most* of the ancient cultures in civ. But you're point is taken.
All in all, I don't argue that Canada doesn't make the cut. If I was making a master list of 18-26 cultures I wouldn't add Canada either. But adding them after the fact, so that Canadians can play the culture with which they most identify, is fun to do.
Do people really think it will happen. It would be an economical catastrophe for Quebec. Not to mention their population would be cut dramatically as the anglos would begin the mass exodus.
If it did happen though I am sure it would be funded by Alberta. It is the West and our cash that keeps the Eastern squeaky wheel turning.
If anything Alberta should join up with the NWT and seperate. Then we could horde the oil and water resources and create a financial civ. Of course King Ralph would then agree to become the next state in the US as to avoid a repeat of Iraq.
And this is exactly the types of statements and reasons that that the Cons party, as it stands now, will never be elected. Not to turn this into a same sex marriage debate (that is a whole other thread), but the Supreme Court of Canada has ruled infavour of it. No government could do anything about it unless they use the "not withstanding clause" , and no party is foolish enough to do that.
As far as the people I listed as appealing to Canada I will give a couple reasons...
Brian Tobin - As a young Cpt Turbot all of the country was behind him when someone finally stood up to the illegial Spanish trollers, as well as he got out of the way before all this Gomery stuff came down...true bi-lingual
Allan Rock has appeal as a former minister of health and also is relitivly young.. Again no scandals with him... true bi-lingual
Manely is another young Liberal who has charisma, fully bi-lingual and does not seem to carry any baggage.
McKenna is easy to defend as a very popular Premier of NB and is doing a very good job as the Ambassedor of the USA. Probably the front runner with Tobin running in second place.
Oh, and one more thing, if Tobin is one who takes over the leadership of the Libs, there will be a new and invigorated Warren Kinsella - probably the most dangerous and brilliant person in politics. Pick up his book it is facinating how one can spin.
As for people that should not be in the Cons party I just gave a short list, I think the bandwith of this site might get overrun if we listed them all. And unless Myron Thompson is you local MP, his cowboyhat routine does not fly.
Its because there is no more money to grab. They love Alberta and all that cash that flows east.
Why is this the kinda statement that is the reason why the PC wont get elected? You have no idea how many people apposed that ruling the entire province of Alberta did just to go right off the top of my head.
BC is doing very well, just a bit less than Alberta.
I agree you are doing okay (but I would not say very well). If there was a way to legalize the grow ops though, you could add a billion dollar industry (another contribution from Canada for Civ - would love to see that hydroponic tech. +1 happy face, -1 health, -1 food-all the munchies).
I am not one of Myron Thompsons constituants but his Cowboy hat flys well with myself and pretty much the entire procivence and a good chunk of the neighbouring ones. Rock, Toben and Manley are all Chretien's men and they will fly worse out west than Martin did. The worse of the lot being Toben.
What exactly makes some one a true bi-lingual, I don't come from a place that speaks french and yet I speak both am I not a true bi-lingual, isn't Steven Harper a true Bi-lingual or Gilles Duceppe? I think it is retarted that this coutry gauges so much on language.
Let's be honest about the Same Sex marriage issue, for or against it you have to admit it was blown way out of proportion. In reality it was a non issue. No one should make disicions on political preferance based souly on it, any one who would shouldn't be allowed to vote.
Well becoming a States would be better than the alternative, freedomization then becoming a State. I really don't like Ralph there are far more compitant poeple in the party but there is no alternative in the other parties at the moment. I really don't trust Kevin taft, he lied to me when spoke to him on a school trip so I have as little faith in the provincial liberals as I do in the federal liberals. Same goes for the NDP. I just can't wait until Ralphy boy is gone and some one more equipped to lead becomes the head of teh party.
I don't know the NDP really screwed them up in a fiscal sense, I am not certain if they are back to being have province yet, but they do have a sizable oil patch so they are making money there too.
Don't even get me started on drugs, that is the last thing any one should think about legalizing. I would leave the country if they decriminalized it. It would be a black mark on our internation reputation, one that would never fade.
Because the majority of the population of the country have no problem with same-sex marriage. Sure nearly the pop of Alberta doesnt go along with it but nearly the entire pop of Van, Tor, Montreal really dont give a damn. (that is where the power comes from). If Alberta and the Con party want to bury their head in the sand and think that Same-sex marriage is the downfall of society like they imply, they are never going to form gov't. Klein himself backed down from using the notwithstanding clause on this issue. So yes, issues like this, abortion, capital punishment and so-forth will keep the Cons party of today out of gov't.
While i really dont agree with you and I think your wrong Im obviously not gonna change your mind and likewise you wont change mine so lets just wait and see come the next election.
Heck I agree with you, but the fact of the matter it does make a difference if someone is a true bi-lingual. Name a PM that wasnt. There are not any and there never will be as long as Quebec/Ontario and the Maritimes hold the balance of power.
People can live in their Alberta dream world but it doesnt change the fact that the majority of the country does not agree with it. It makes me laugh that Alberta/BC conservs ***** about how Ontario can keep voting Liberal. Who is more right? I cant say, but Ontario/Maritimes have more MPs and they feel their choice is right. What makes someone say they are wrong. It is all opinion.
As far a Tobin, he was smart enough to get out before the whole "scandal" came down he is very popular across all of Canada. Frank McKenna is also very popular... Obviously not in the Conserv circles but step outside and you will see how popular both actually are.
That is just pure Liberal Propaganda. The conservatives do not support criminalizing abortion, they do not support Capitol punishment either. those are non-issues and have been for years. Every time the Liberals blunder around ellection time they go to their age old defense of "Well you think that's bad the conservaties will...". It is sickening how many times voters have swalloed that tripe.
The hardest part about that is that I'd have to go a long way to leave conservative circles. You are right it is all about oppinion, and I am merely stating mine, every one here is. Having said that I think I have had my fill of politics for today.
Back to Civ4
This very political thread has done a lot of mileage on very little Civ IV gas.
Maybe, maybe not, but you must admit it works...and that is why the Cons will not get elected... Im tired now, was all fun and perhaps we can pick up another time.
Anyhow back to Civ4
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