1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Canada's national symbolism is confusing me

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by metatron, Feb 24, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. metatron

    metatron unperson

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2002
    Messages:
    3,754
    So, since i have built up momentum in the 127th round of this immigration points business i may as well get this out of my system, too.


    Well.
    Canada's national symbolism looks...
    Weak? Uninformative?
    Well, it's... something.
    You'll see what i mean:


    1. The flag.



    First of all, the flag violates a rather simple rule for flags: A child should be able to draw it from memory.
    Of course you can compromise on the quality of the leaf/camel/helicopter/whatever a given child may happen to draw.
    But yeah...this is a common illness in the anglosphere. You people apparently can't keep your flags simple.
    The bigger problem though is that, apparently - feel free to correct me, none of this means anything. The bars don't mean anything. The white doesn't mean anything. The red barely if at all means anything. Not officially anyway.
    The leaf is from a song nobody cares about, which is mostly about England and the Queen (Victoria).
    It's basically there to inform the casual beholder that - wait for it - there are trees in Canada.
    Pretty Trees. Just the right height!

    Let me give you an example for contrast:
    This is a six color flag (!) that is still heradically correct (!) that a child can draw (!) and that has obvious (!) and powerful (!) symbolism:




    2. The anthem.

    You recently had a thread about this: Yes, "sons", very problematic. :mischief:
    I find the use of the term "native" odd but that's neither here or there.
    The bigger problem is that the anthem doesn't mean much of anything either.
    It informs us that... Canada is in the north. And not just any north, no. The true north.

    This isn't normal either. Usually anthems have a bit more to tell.
    In my view, if one has started an anthem with "oh" one is allready on the wrong track.
    Plenty of anthems start with "arise" or some such as the first word (e.g. France).
    Some start with some noun to be aspired to (like them people with their "unity").

    Just for the record, let's have ourselves a decent anthem:
    Spoiler :

    Btw: They lifted this from some random movie in the 30s.

    Anyway. Trees. North. Moving on.

    3. The motto.

    "A mari usque ad mare"
    You have to be kidding me! Trees. North. And now this!
    Well, in a world of dead cell phone batteries everybody will still be able to find you people, what with the abundant hints...

    4. The poppy business.


    Ok, i tried my best to bite my tongue last november. But you can see that this is somewhat off.
    Somewhat off for a super-enlightened latte-liberal people, which you frequently claim to be, anyway.

    Like, never mind that the anthem you heard above uses the word "millions" - and with cause.
    Just, you know, imagine i was a freshly landed alien and you had to explain the whole thing to me.
    Here's what my part of the dialogue would be:

    "Ah, so these people attacked you?"
    "Ah, so they attacked your friends/overlords?"
    "Wait, what? I have to write this down. This sounds complicated."
    "What is a Belgium?"
    "Ok, got it. So this happened..."
    "Other side of the planet. Got it."
    "And you showed them?"
    "Oh, so it was a minor part of a battle fought largely by your allies/overlords? And your enemies barely remember the whole thing because even the larger battle was 'kinda meh' and your enemies had plenty other things to care about?"
    "But you won at least?"
    "Ok, but you won the war then?"
    "Oh, so neither you nor your friends/overlords really did. Mostly the people whom you mocked for a century as cowards and weaklings won the war with the help of your neighbors on the far-down end of your nose?"
    "And you're a pacifist country where people pride themselves on being very polite?"
    "But hey, everybody got loads more solidarity and socialism out of this never mind the franchise, so that's something?"
    "Oh, you mean that was actually caused by a bunch of racist ladies with a time machine?"
    "..."
    "Excuse me, i have to read through my notes. This is all very confusing."



    Some maps to illustrate the tie to the earlier point.

    Disclaimer: Canada not shown.
    Spoiler :

    Disclaimer: Canada also not shown.
    Spoiler :


    Moderator Action: Warned for trolling --LM
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 24, 2018
    Hygro likes this.
  2. RedFred

    RedFred Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2007
    Messages:
    29
    Location:
    Vancouver
    I can help you a bit with the anthem. All I have time for today. Oh Canada is a French song. The English translation has changed throughout the years, but I doubt that the French version has changed. "Anglosphere" may not fully capture the essence of Canada.
     
  3. metatron

    metatron unperson

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2002
    Messages:
    3,754
    Yeah, i was being brief there for the sake of humor.
    Point is: It doesn't tell a lot, exactly.
     
  4. Valka D'Ur

    Valka D'Ur Hosting Iron Pen in A&E Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2005
    Messages:
    25,649
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Red Deer, Alberta, Canada
    :rolleyes:

    Canadian children are quite aware of what our flag looks like.

    I'm sure there's some kind of symbolism in all that clutter, but to me it looks like a pathway that has a fork in the road.

    The new version of the anthem was given royal assent a few days before the Olympics started. No more "sons=daughters and women aren't patriotic" nonsense. Get the religious stuff out of it, and I can finally sing it.

    There was a news article a day or two ago in which I learned that the North Koreans are even more geographically challenged than some Americans (I'm thinking of those who think that Canada is overseas).

    Yes, I've realized by now that you have zero respect for Canada's contributions during World War I, World War II, the Korean war, and every war since in which we've stepped up to help.

    Remembrance Day is the one day of the year in which I willingly participate in a religious ceremony. If I can bite my tongue at some of the Catholic portions of the ceremony, you can bite your tongue if somebody makes a thread about it here.

    The proper title is "O Canada."

    What humor? All I see from you tonight is a lot of rude posts.
     
    metatron likes this.
  5. Commodore

    Commodore Deity

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,059
    It's hard for anyone to take you seriously when you complain about people calling Canada "Canadia" when you openly insult other nationalities like this. And you do this quite frequently. Don't dish it out if you can't take it.
     
    Timsup2nothin likes this.
  6. metatron

    metatron unperson

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2002
    Messages:
    3,754
    Ok, let me fetch a new cup of coffee.
    Leaf, camel, helicopter...
    ...palm tree, friendly punk who wants to give hug ...erm... hmm... minecraft save state?
    No, no, the point is, like: pick a meaningful thing.
    Like, if you want to have a national holiday about WW2 in general or Juno Beach or some other more specific thing, be my guest.
    But, this Vimy Ridge business, by the looks of it, seems to be about you and the English more than anything, with us being little more than cardboard stage deco.
    Which would also be fine, were you to finally admit it.
    [tongueincheek]Well, tell that to the mortally insulted South Africans.[/tongueincheek]
    :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2018
  7. Valka D'Ur

    Valka D'Ur Hosting Iron Pen in A&E Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2005
    Messages:
    25,649
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Red Deer, Alberta, Canada
    Way to ignore the context. I specified the Americans who think Canada is "overseas." Yes, I realize it's overseas from Hawaii. But when I'm talking to some customer service agent in Arizona, it's mind-croggling to be told that such-and-such a policy is in place when shipping "overseas."

    I was not aware that there's an ocean separating our two countries.

    And most times I see Americans' own maps, they've got Alaska out in the Pacific Ocean next to Hawaii, like it's also a tropical island. That has to be confusing to some people...

    Canada is a Commonwealth country. We had strong ties to Britain then and we still do. Do you have references to Canada in your anthem? No? Then why are you complaining?
     
  8. Hehehe

    Hehehe Emperor

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2006
    Messages:
    1,391
    Location:
    Finland
    A thread for bashing Canada? Interesting... I didn't even realize there are people who have something against Canada. I can't decide which side to come down on, so I guess I'll just grab the popcorn for now
     
  9. Commodore

    Commodore Deity

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,059
    You would get to cry "out of context" if there weren't countless examples over the years of you bashing other nationalities (especially Americans) yet crying foul when someone fires back and starts bashing Canadia.

    It's only confusing to you because you take everything 100% literally. "Overseas" is just a term we use to mean anything being shipped outside the US. The reason being that of all the countries we import/export to/from, only two of them don't meet the literal definition of "overseas". And even at that, despite sharing land borders with Canadia and Mexico, there is still quite a bit of sea trade between the US and those nations.

    :rolleyes:

    Please tell me I don't have to explain why some of our maps are like that. Because if I do have to explain it, then you kinda lose any right to act intellectually superior and look down your nose at anyone.

    Moderator Action: In future, please refrain from this type of rhetoric. It only inflames tempers. --LM
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 24, 2018
  10. metatron

    metatron unperson

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2002
    Messages:
    3,754
    It's catching on. I'm going to pee myself. :lol:
    Sometimes i have weird tangentially egalitarian (and "rude") fits.
    And somewhere between the term "Murica" (which i use - guilty of my own charge), the musings of JJ McCullough and the AfD being really terribly enamored with this points system for immigration, a perfect storm formed.
     
  11. Hehehe

    Hehehe Emperor

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2006
    Messages:
    1,391
    Location:
    Finland
    Canadia? Can someone explain this to someone who knows very little about bashing Canada?
    Have some respect man. Canada is an inspiration for all of humankind :nono:
     
  12. Valka D'Ur

    Valka D'Ur Hosting Iron Pen in A&E Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2005
    Messages:
    25,649
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Red Deer, Alberta, Canada
    "Canadia" is a fictitious place.

    Oh, do link me to those "countless" examples of me bashing other nationalities. Did it ever occur to you that I got sick and tired of Americans shoving their "USA#1" in my face and claiming to have invented and done everything of any consequence and arguing when people point out the things they take credit for that they really shouldn't?

    And I'm pretty sure that if I subscribe to a craft magazine from Arizona, they're not going to ship it to me via boat. You know... since neither borders an ocean and there's no ocean between them.

    No, please do explain why your maps are like that, because I've wondered for a long time why you don't have maps that show North America as it really is. No wonder some American kids grow up confused about geography, if they're never shown a real map of North America.
     
  13. Yeekim

    Yeekim Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2006
    Messages:
    10,641
    Location:
    Estonia
    Ditto.

    Canadian flag is cool though.
     
    Valka D'Ur likes this.
  14. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2013
    Messages:
    46,737
    It's called "convenience." Basically the same reason that all the ocean between California and Hawaii is not included to scale in A MAP OF THE UNITED STATES, since it also is not actually PART OF THE UNITED STATES. Of course it would sort of make sense to include Canadia in a map of the United States, since it is basically an adjunct.

    Maybe if the subject were MAPS OF NORTH AMERICA they would in fact actually SHOW NORTH AMERICA.

    NOTE: she did ask to have this obvious thing explained to her, so it does seem only fair to treat her like she is a simpleton.

    Moderator Action: Warned for trolling. --LM
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 24, 2018
  15. Lemon Merchant

    Lemon Merchant Hall Monitor Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    8,638
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Red Sector A
    Moderator Action: This thread is veering off into an undesirable direction, and is now closed. This is a borderline troll thread and so far has not demonstrated any significant merit or reason to stay open. Infractions are forthcoming.

    Thread closed.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page