Canadian and US Amalgamation

NeoDemocrat

MOS MOS MOS
Joined
Aug 27, 2003
Messages
429
Location
Sunny SoCal, USA
I came across an interesting site while looking for speech topics for a class at www.unitednorthamerica.org

It made me think, why not a unified US and Canada. Truly, are the two countries all that different? Both countries have a WASP majority (haha, just learned that word in another thread), both have similar histories, both have fairly similar forms of government, both are made up of huge immigrant populations and both countries could majorly benefit by getting rid of borders, money exchange and trade taxes, seeing as they are eachother's biggest trade partners. I know most Canadians will completely slaughter me on topic, but I'm interested in knowing what people would think about the two countries coming together, or in the least doing a Euro-esque move of using one money system and eliminating trade barriers
 
I would rather wallow in a box of pig vomit than see every single voice north of the 49th silenced. All of my fellow Canadian posters feel the same way as I, and the majority of Americans do not want such a union.

End of thread.

Edit: PS Seleucus: if such a union came about, I would make Osama bin Laden look like Mother Theresa.
 
There is a very vast difference between cultural and political norms in the US and Canada.

I think most Canadians here would be disgusted at the idea of a merger with the United States. I myself would not mind it; Canada has a vast array of natural resources that would be rather beneficial to us.
 
NeoDemocrat said:
I came across an interesting site while looking for speech topics for a class at www.unitednorthamerica.org

It made me think, why not a unified US and Canada. Truly, are the two countries all that different? Both countries have a WASP majority (haha, just learned that word in another thread), both have similar histories, both have fairly similar forms of government, both are made up of huge immigrant populations and both countries could majorly benefit by getting rid of borders, money exchange and trade taxes, seeing as they are eachother's biggest trade partners. I know most Canadians will completely slaughter me on topic, but I'm interested in knowing what people would think about the two countries coming together, or in the least doing a Euro-esque move of using one money system and eliminating trade barriers
But there are 8 million French speaking Quebecois who aren't interested at all in an union with the US where they would be even more meaningless.

Actually, it's true that economically speaking Canada and the US make only one already. However, it seems that political agendas are diverging more and more between both countries. It doesn't seem the majority of Canadians are fond of the Republican party.

EDIT : Oops ! two people answered already. I needed so much time to write those 6 lines ???
 
Naw, I'd like to fuse two completely unrelated countries, then watch the ensuing confusion. Like Mexico and Botswana. :crazyeye:
 
I know most Canadians will completely slaughter me on topic
A very astute observation.
Truly, are the two countries all that different?
Yes.
both have similar histories
Maybe until about 1770, and definitely quite dissimilar in the twentieth century.
both have fairly similar forms of government
Not really, other than the voting bit and the federal structure of the country.
both countries could majorly benefit by getting rid of borders, money exchange and trade taxes, seeing as they are eachother's biggest trade partners.
This, at least, I somewhat agree with. Trade is good. However, I would sooner see Canada expanding trade with Europe. Judging from American abuse of NAFTA and the possibility of having our natural resources raped by the same people who are drilling for oil in the Alaska Reserve, I would have to say things are about as open as they should be. If the US wants to stop protecting its farmers and lumber industry, then we can talk about "free trade", otherwise it's a one-sided deal.

EDIT: Marla, another good point. If any such union occurs, Quebec will separate and I will go to live there.
 
Marla_Singer said:
But there are 8 million French speaking Quebecois who aren't interested at all in an union with the US where they would be even more meaningless.

The French-Canadians could easily be bought off with promises of greater autonomy, perhaps a Common-Wealth status similar to Puerto Rico. They could very quickly become the most pro-American of all, sort of like the Kurds in Iraq.

Actually, it's true that economically speaking Canada and the US make only one already. However, it seems that political agendas are diverging more and more between both countries. It doesn't seem the majority of Canadians are fond of the Republican party.

I think the connection between economics and politics is overhyped. Contrary to the beliefs of some here, trade is not everything.
 
SeleucusNicator said:
The French-Canadians could easily be bought off with promises of greater autonomy, perhaps a Common-Wealth status similar to Puerto Rico. They could very quickly become the most pro-American of all, sort of like the Kurds in Iraq.
Canada is a bilingual country. Quebecois are very influent in Canadian politics. There's no doubt Quebec will lose influence in the operation.

Kurds, on the other side, have absolutely no chance to gain the influence in Baghdad people from Quebec has in Ottawa. That's why I hardly believe Quebec could be bought by Washington with some kind of status guaranting its autonomy.

Moreover, Quebecois already rejected the autonomy twice. And they share with their english speaking fellows the same political opinion about the United States.

Edit : How do we call people from Quebec in English ? Quebecker ? Quebecois seems so weird.
 
Its not feasible for such a union to exist. Southern bible-beltians and uberliberal West-coasterners freak me out anyways.
 
Also, to those who bring up that Canada and the United States are each other's major trade partners:

iirc, in 1914, Great Britain and Germany were each other's greatest trading partners. Do you then also believe that, in 1914, Great Britain and Germany should have merged? If so, anyone alive at the time would laugh at you.
 
Marla_Singer said:
Canada is a bilingual country. Quebecois are very influent in Canadian politics. There's no doubt Quebec will lose influence in the operation. That's why I doubt they would be like the Kurds in Iraq, where they have absolutely no influence in the Iraqi politics.

No matter how many signs in Toronto are in French, I highly doubt that the French-Canadians would lose influence if they were given de-facto independence.

Nobody's bombing them with chemical weapons, but to say that they are completely mollified is unlikely.
 
We may have similarities but enough difference to don't really consider that for now. Beside, the war in Irak has pospone that project for a while.
 
Such a merger would probably be beneficial to both parties (to the U.S. due to the resources, as SN stated, to Canada, as there will be an influx of money), but I severely doubt it will happen this century. It could happen, though. How many people living in 1905 thought that China would become an influencial poweror that Great Britain would lose its empire?
 
SeleucusNicator said:
No matter how many signs in Toronto are in French, I highly doubt that the French-Canadians would lose influence if they were given de-facto independence.

Nobody's bombing them with chemical weapons, but to say that they are completely mollified is unlikely.
Jean Chretien, the former prime minister of Canada was a French-Canadian. A union between Canada and the US will have few chances to see a French speaking President being elected one day.

The influence in Canadian politics isn't simply about signs in Toronto.
 
I'm glad I brought up such a controversial topic.

My point is if English Canadians and French Canadians can live as one country, surely English Canadians and Americans (majority) could as well.

And the US has no official language, so laws defending Quebec's independent language would be no problem. The same happened in Lousiana

Of course, this all a bit of nonsense. I'm of the opinion that the majority of Americans wouldn't really care, however Canadians are completely opposed

And correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Nova Scotia seriously consider joining the US if Quebec seceeded, thus proving at least some Canadians really wouldn't mind
 
Marla_Singer said:
Jean Chretien, the former prime minister of Canada was a French-Canadian. A union between Canada and the US will have few chances to see a French speaking President being elected one day.

The influence in Canadian politics isn't simply about signs in Toronto.

Again, we're not talking about incorporating Quebec into the United States. I do not believe that the United States could hold it. Rather, this is about giving Quebec independence, thus winning French-Canadian support for the American annexation of the rest of Canada.

We get the forests of British Columbia and the gold of the Yukon, while they get independence. Maybe we'd even give them some Atlantic provinces so they are not completely engulfed by us. I don't think they would complain.
 
Marla_Singer said:
Jean Chretien, the former prime minister of Canada was a French-Canadian. A union between Canada and the US will have few chances to see a French speaking President being elected one day.

The influence in Canadian politics isn't simply about signs in Toronto.

And, in fact, our current Prime Minister is also from Quebec.
 
NeoDemocrat said:
And correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Nova Scotia seriously consider joining the US if Quebec seceeded, thus proving at least some Canadians really wouldn't mind

Alberta too, as well as several western provinces. But that was during the 1960's. Things have changed since then.
 
Taliesin said:
And, in fact, our current Prime Minister is also from Quebec.
Damn'... a name like Paul Martin sounds as much English than French. :D

Seriously, I didn't know Martin was also from Quebec.
 
SeleucusNicator said:
Alberta too, as well as several western provinces. But that was during the 1960's. Things have changed since then.

On the note of Alberta, Canadian tax distribution is completely outrageous and the power of the Prime Minister, all though not usually exercised, is huge. This is all coming from the website, however, so please feel free to tell me off for wrong info :lol:
 
Top Bottom