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Canadian Elections!

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Wrymouth3, Jun 30, 2015.

  1. Valka D'Ur

    Valka D'Ur Hosting Iron Pen in A&E Retired Moderator

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    The government won't even investigate the missing aboriginal women! They won't do anything concrete about the RCMP, who basically consider the whole thing a joke, because most of the women are/were poor, prostitutes, drug addicts, etc. The only white woman I ever heard of who disappeared while hitchhiking in B.C. got more of an effort to find her than any of the others did... and they still haven't found her. By this time nobody is expecting to find her alive; they just want to find her remains so the family can have closure.

    There is some that's done, yes. Not by us personally, though.
     
  2. Evie

    Evie Pronounced like Eevee

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    Why bother with 1200 aboriginal women, when there are more votes to be won talking about 2 Muslim ones?

    (Yes, I'm being sarcastic)
     
  3. Valka D'Ur

    Valka D'Ur Hosting Iron Pen in A&E Retired Moderator

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    I know you're being sarcastic. There was an interesting bit on the news about aboriginal voters. Some are very enthusiastic about voting, but there are far more who are either genuinely apathetic or actually take pride in not voting. I get that some of them don't want to be seen as "giving legitimacy" to the current representatives of a system that took the country centuries ago... but isn't it better to try to choose which of those representatives to work with, than leave it all up to people who have far less of a stake in aboriginal matters?
     
  4. Evie

    Evie Pronounced like Eevee

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    IT's a though choice probably, and I really can't fault them for choosing not to work with what is, essentially, an occupying power.

    But yeah, it makes it much harder to fix the country, since even fewer people who vote actually care about what's truly broken in Canada.
     
  5. warpus

    warpus In pork I trust

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    Looks like the Liberals are in a clear lead in the polls, with the NDP down about 10 points or something similar, and the bad guys right in the middle.

    My riding is very close with the Lib and Con numbers being almost identical. NDP probably won't win in this riding, but they have a decent amount of support too.

    Seems like anything can happen, both here in my riding as well as federally.
     
  6. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Deity

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    We have notaries in lots of places but they all cost money. Where can you go that doesn't cost anything?

    I also just object to having to have a notarized statement in any case. All it proves is that I signed the slip myself, not that I didn't lie on the slip. And really, who would bother to lie about a reason not to vote in any case? The penalties for election fraud are huge and we're talking about a single ballot here, it's not like I can get hundreds of these ballots.
     
  7. Zelig

    Zelig Beep Boop

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    It makes it hard to care when people use rhetoric like "occupying power".
     
  8. Evie

    Evie Pronounced like Eevee

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    How else would you describe us, from their perspective?

    The way we treated them absolutely justify calling it that:

    -We came in, took their land by force, the threat of force, and by treaties negotiated under a completely lopsided power ratio
    -We ended their sovereignty and independence and replaced it with a sham show of having local government
    -We made their local governments the least autonomous in Canada, under a level of federal control no city or municipality, let alone provinces, would accept.
    -We deprived them of most significant political rights, including right to legal representation in courts of law and right to vote.
    -We took their children forcibly from their parents and shipped them off to school in what has been described (by the chief justice of our supreme court) as a cultural genocide.
    -We turned a blind eye to crimes committed against them, on the sole basis of their race.

    SOME of these things have started to improve (we gave them voting rights, and eventually ended our little bout of cultural genocide...), but the problem is, even for those improvement, they had to wait for us to "generously" decide to stop treating them as inferior beings.

    Occupying power is, to put it bluntly, a MILD way of phrasing the way we've acted toward the Natives.
     
  9. Zelig

    Zelig Beep Boop

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    Neither I nor my ancestors did any of that.
     
  10. Evie

    Evie Pronounced like Eevee

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    And this changes precisely what about what our *country* has done?

    Because that's how they view CANADA we're talking about - and what matter is what Canada has done, not whose ancestors were there for it.

    (also, I thought you were a franco-Quebecer expat in Alberta? Or am I confusing you with some other user?)
     
  11. Zelig

    Zelig Beep Boop

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    What "Canada has done" is what some people's ancestors did to other people's ancestors. I'm not going to argue with court decisions or TRC recommendations, but I'm not accepting personal responsibility for actions I had no hand in.

    I'm a French-Canadian in Alberta, not Québécois. (And not really an expat for that matter, I was born in Alberta, just lived in the Maritimes for a while.) Ancestry is Acadian/American/South American mix.
     
  12. Valka D'Ur

    Valka D'Ur Hosting Iron Pen in A&E Retired Moderator

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    Various social agencies. The Canadian Mental Health association, for one. And there's another one that helps low-income people with housing issues. So that's two. I found out about those when I had to have something notarized when I had the custody fight with the province over who would get the say over my father's affairs. I'm his legal guardian, but not his trustee. The Office of the Public Guardian was less than helpful, as far as finding a notary was concerned; they shrugged and told me to go find a lawyer and they didn't give a damn that I couldn't afford one. It was while I was talking to someone at the Mental Health Association that I was told there was someone there who would help.

    And nobody said you, or they, did. Likewise, I informed one of my aboriginal classmates in my anthropology class that I personally hadn't done anything to her people, and therefore took exception to her saying that she wished the Black Death had wiped out all of Europe.
     
  13. Evie

    Evie Pronounced like Eevee

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    Ah, apologies about the Québécois/French Can mix-up.

    The only personal responsibility of yours in the matter is fixing what's broke in this country - and that the personal responsibility of anyone living in any country at any given point in time.

    Doesn't mean we get to waive away the fact that Canada is, in fact *to this day*, built on land that was acquired either by force or by virtue of unequal treaties. That hasn't changed ; it's still true.

    Likewise, they are STILL second class citizens - witness the missing aboriginal women, who are somehow less important than two peoplee wearing the Niqab. That, too, is still true.

    As is the fact that their "autonomous" government is subject to a level of oversight and tutelage no other government in Canada has to deal with. Both of which are also still true - Harper just recently INCREASED oversight and control by the federal govt.

    These things aren't as bad as they once were, but they're still true.
     
  14. warpus

    warpus In pork I trust

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    I don't disagree with your general thesis, nor do I fully agree with it, but you are basically describing how most countries on this planet came to be.
     
  15. Evie

    Evie Pronounced like Eevee

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    I'm not disputing that ; but when the people whose land was staken are still around, treated as second class citizens by the country built from their taken land, and their local government given less autonomy than any other, they have every right to view themselves as occupied people, and the country in question as an occupying power.
     
  16. warpus

    warpus In pork I trust

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    I disagree; an occupation would have a military presence.

    I mean, I understand that they haven't been treated with the respect they deserve to say the least, and I understand where they are coming from, but I just don't view "occupation" as being very accurate.
     
  17. Arwon

    Arwon

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    How do you think seizure and ongoing control was undertaken and maintained if not ultimately by force of arms? At the end of the day the last argument of colonisation was the British and then local militaries that sustained the occupying states.

    I'm also assuming Canada had its own equivalents to the Australian Black Wars/Frontier Wars. Which in our case killed more people than we lost in WW1, yet remains completely unrecognised in terms of war memorials and mostly removed from popular memory.
     
  18. Zelig

    Zelig Beep Boop

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    Well there we're going to disagree in the same way as with subsidies for the elderly - I think we should be fixing problems with poverty/addiction/murders/etc. without discriminating on any of the grounds protected by the Canadian Human Rights Act.
     
  19. shadowplay

    shadowplay (boss music)

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    I've decided to vote Liberal. The tactics the Conservative party are using are evil, and the NDP and their anti-trade policies irk me. Trudeau sounds more and more Prime Ministerial by the day.
     
  20. Valka D'Ur

    Valka D'Ur Hosting Iron Pen in A&E Retired Moderator

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    :rolleyes:

    And I suppose that because he announced that he would increase funding for the CBC and the arts, you're going to complain that he's discriminating against hockey players or the gambling industry?

    Have you bothered to make your views known to the NDP candidate in your riding?
     

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