Canals

[The End Is Nigh]

This would be a nice idea. To be able to build a canal where one tile of land seaparates two oceans or seas (arguably you can do this by building a city on that tile, however, it may be too close to an existing city).

 

[Truronian]

This would be nice, especially in light of Firaxian claims that navies are more important now. There would need to be a system stopping mass-canalling but i dont see why its not possible

 

[searcheagle]

This would be nice, especially in light of Firaxian claims that navies are more important now. There would need to be a system stopping mass-canalling but i dont see why its not possible

1. One of the most requested ideas in CFC History.
2. Where did we learn "that navies are more important now?"

 

[Truronian]

I saw an interview (cant remember which one) in which the guy explained that because of work boats, the AI puts more effort into navies, which in turn causes the player to look to navies for defense. Whether this is actually the case remains to be seen (they were meant to be way important in 3).

 

[apatheist]

I can see how sea improvements make navies more important tactically, but I don't see how that translates to strategic importance. It just gives ships something to pillage, which is something, but not everything. I hope we're missing something.

 

[Deep_Blue]

the only downside of canals is that players like me will exploit them in a bad way. I will make borders of canals to prevent AI troops to cross them. If Iam in hopless situation and my empire is falling apart, I will make a city (or more) that is completly surrounded with canals to survive

 

[SmartJock2112]

Well, the way I see it, it would be easy to prevent that shameless exploit of your's : Simply make a canal something a space that either land units or sea units could occupy

 

[saintcmj13]

will the ai be a lot smater in civ4? if there were canals units would have to be able to cross them.

 

[Israelite9191]

I think that you should have to plot a course fo rthe canal before your worker starts, the canal would have to connect to bodies of water to be buildable. There should be a relatively high cost so that canals wouldn't be used to often or incorectally. I also rivers can be navigated than canals should be allowed to connect to rivers and act as a fresh water source when connecting rivers. Also, canals shouldn't be usable until the two water sources are connected, this will prevent people from interupting workers in the middle of a project so that they can use canals like Deep_Blue said he would.

 

[REX GRACCHVS]

i like this idea, but i dont see the need to make them proof against over use like that, how bout just make the canaled tile produce no shields and no food, but double trade and have them take a while to build?

 

[Deep_Blue]

the idea of SmartJock is good, making the canals passable by land units will prevent me from exploiting them.

 

[brokguitar]

Just adding links to other canal and bridges threads.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=121756
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=95988&highlight=bridge

 

[Pacifist]

This would be a nice idea. To be able to build a canal where one tile of land seaparates two oceans or seas (arguably you can do this by building a city on that tile, however, it may be too close to an existing city).

Actually, building a city just for that purpose is much better than a canal, assuming that the canal can be used by everyone (just like roads/rails on land). A city built by you however, can only be 'entered' by you, unless it's taken over by a foreign power. Plus, you get the bonus of whatever defensive fortifications you have in that city and its 'free unit support' under certain governments. I should just say all the benefits a city gives while doubling as a passageway for passing friendly ships that needs to get from one side of a land mass to the other side. Ships can even stop by to get repaired before they continue on their way

IMO, all the benefits the city gives far outweighs the negatives of the awkward city placement. Just gotta be careful of those culture flips if it's badly situated

If canals were available, I would probably choose to build canals as temporary solutions (i.e. no Settlers) then build a city over it later on

-Pacifist-
"If you find a good solution and become attached to it, the solution may become your next problem." -Robert Anthony

 

[Marla_Singer]

Actually, building a city just for that purpose is much better than a canal, assuming that the canal can be used by everyone (just like roads/rails on land). A city built by you however, can only be 'entered' by you, unless it's taken over by a foreign power. Plus, you get the bonus of whatever defensive fortifications you have in that city and its 'free unit support' under certain governments. I should just say all the benefits a city gives while doubling as a passageway for passing friendly ships that needs to get from one side of a land mass to the other side. Ships can even stop by to get repaired before they continue on their way

IMO, all the benefits the city gives far outweighs the negatives of the awkward city placement. Just gotta be careful of those culture flips if it's badly situated

If canals were available, I would probably choose to build canals as temporary solutions (i.e. no Settlers) then build a city over it later on

-Pacifist-
"If you find a good solution and become attached to it, the solution may become your next problem." -Robert Anthony

Okay.

First, about the problem of a canal being "international", it's obvious that those both land and see units should be able to go on that canal tile, as SmartJock told. The only thing you would need to do in order to control the canal would be to place a land unit on it.

Second, the canal would be good for many things. As I imagine it, why making it necessarily only one tile ? Maybe that canal could be 2-tile long (not more of course in order to not be able to make a canal crossing a whole continent). You cannot place two cities right next to each other.

Third, often you capute ennemy cities which are placed right next to the location of a "canal city". You have to destroy that city in order to build a new one right beside in order to make it a canal city. Such a useless waste doesn't sound realy accurate.

And finally, Fourth, the AI NEVER build canal cities. This is an obvious advantage of man over the AI. In case we are able to build canals, the AI could be able to exploit this.

Of course, as I see it, canals should be buildable only late in the game (industrial age). We've built canals before, but bigger canals such as Suez or Panama had been built only at that stage. And that's how I imagine that canal possibility.

 

[Israelite9191]

For you to control the canal, it would just have to fall in your territory. As for big canals being recent, how about the Great Canal. I, mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the longest canal in the world? And wasn't it built even before the Mongol period? I think there should be a technology available from around the early middle ages that would allow the construction of canals, but this technology would cost alot, preventing people from just researching it willy-nilly.

 

[jwijn]

A few ways to balance out canals:

1. Canals may be built starting with Construction but may only cross one tile and only two boats may use the canal per turn

2. With Engineering, multiple boats may use the canal per turn

3. With Steam Power canals may cross 2 tiles

What do you think?

 

[Marla_Singer]

A few ways to balance out canals:

1. Canals may be built starting with Construction but may only cross one tile and only two boats may use the canal per turn

2. With Engineering, multiple boats may use the canal per turn

3. With Steam Power canals may cross 2 tiles

What do you think?

Once again it's an excellent idea jwijn !

Maybe we can imagine that steam power doesn't only allow us to build 2-tile canals but it also allow us to build canals on mountain tiles (at the image of Panama or Corynth canals).

 

[gun powder man]

A few ways to balance out canals:

1. Canals may be built starting with Construction but may only cross one tile and only two boats may use the canal per turn

2. With Engineering, multiple boats may use the canal per turn

3. With Steam Power canals may cross 2 tiles

What do you think?

Brilliant! But I think Steam Power should allow 3 tiles (or at least Industrialization should). Also, the look of canals should change. In the Ancient/Middle age The canal should look more like a combination of a ditch and a river. Industrial age/Modern Age should look more like the Panama Canal. Also, building effort (time for one worker to build something or how many workers it takes it takes to build it in one turn) should be more than building a barricaded fortress (a fortress with a moat thing) with a road.
Tolls by one country to cross would be tricky, due a canal would be in someone's territory, and in CivIV, other countries will not enter your territories unless you have an right of passage, and to charge them toll wouldn't be good (You allow me and my troops into your territory, but you won't let me cross this canal without paying?). Unless they invent a new diplomacy option, tolls would not work (but it would be cool if there was a diplomacy option to allow entrance only in water tiles that you have, and canals). There can be no such thing as a neutral canal due to that if a canal is built outside territory, someone will quickly take it (and that the only reason to build canals is that someone or many people need to use it. It wouldn't make sence that someone would build a canal in a remote area, due to that no one would use it until territories expanded and then someone would capture it. The only real way to have a international canal would be a controling county of that canal to have a sort of passage agreement with everyone.)

 

[I am the Future]

A few ways to balance out canals:

1. Canals may be built starting with Construction but may only cross one tile and only two boats may use the canal per turn

2. With Engineering, multiple boats may use the canal per turn

3. With Steam Power canals may cross 2 tiles

What do you think?

The only problem I see is that it should be raised from 2 to 3

that would be more like the erie canal.

 

[Deep_Blue]

what about the size of ships that can cross a canal? for example a could an Aircraft Carrier pass?
Maybe there's no problem with modern canals but ancient canals have smaller width.