Cancel culture strikes again

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Colon, Feb 24, 2021.

  1. Yeekim

    Yeekim Moderator Moderator

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    No intention... even though there's most probably some crazy east Asian supremacist out there who uses it exactly like that.
    Just pointing out that not everyone is at all times acutely aware of the baggage a word may carry.
    Even though I knew that yellow is associated with cowardice, I would not have considered it different from "white" or "black" when denoting someone's race.
    You have a problem with North Africa?
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2021
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  2. Rashiminos

    Rashiminos Fool Prophet

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    It's an attempt to isolate a target (eg an individual) from the wider community.
    For instance, by appealing to authority such as an employer.

    Especially if the goal is to eliminate that target from the domain of the community. The net result tends to be segregation.

    This is overly contingent on the underlying composition of the targeters or targets of cancellations. There's no general reason a cancellation strategy can't be scaled up to be employed against an institution, or that one cannot be developed by an individual intending to hijack an institution or institutions to target specific individuals. There may be a degree of difficulty.

    Hats off to the store owner.
     
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  3. Gorbles

    Gorbles Load Balanced

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    Why? For what purpose? If you think I'm wrong, simply say so and provide the appropriate argument. If there's something else, I'd like to hear it regardless.
    Why does it matter that Senethro brought up the bannings? You're the one who seemed to draw an equivalence to "cancel culture" (which you haven't refuted, so I'm presuming it was your intent, and as such a fair point for me to respond to).

    It's my opinion that you generalise too broadly here, regardless. reddit isn't a vBulletin (or Vanilla, or traditional-style) forum (of any description). If you change the context, you change the argument. Not all such platforms are analogous (which is why I stuck to fan-run, because they're paid for out of pocket, and the group dynamics are far more natural, compared to publisher-ran, or a different beast entirely like reddit). reddit is almost social media-esque in its drive for profit (through data), much like Twitter, Facebook, and so on. Forums are in general more protected from brigading across the board due to a combination of built-in anti-spam measures and some form of active moderation. Inactive moderation (slash administration) can allow brigading, but there tends to be little point as a completely unresponsive administrative team normally indicates a dead forum. Bots are more common in that instance.

    Context is important here, because terms of these "takeovers" that you are espousing differ specifically depending upon it. Remember - this came out of you specifically linking such behaviour to "cancel culture". Which for my part, reinforces my long-held (and repeatedly stated point): that "cancel culture" doesn't mean enough of anything. If people of all ideological groupings participate in this kind of behaviour (and if we include social media, reddit, and other platforms in the mix, they absolutely do), then "cancel culture" is inaccurate. Even if we take it at your stated description (in your quote below) - which I'd argue generally, but such an argument is beside the point at the moment - such a description falls short of describing such activity.

    I guess a good question at this point is: why did you attempt to tie forum bannings (here, historically) to "cancel culture", and then shift gears to Internet platforms at large? Your argument seems to remain vague; it doesn't appear to lend itself to anything specific.
    I never said rule-skirting was something that was only used by people of certain ideological groupings. It was contextually-related to the discussion about how moderation (on CFC, and possibly other forums) can be influenced, allegedly, by "cancel culture". I'll try and relate back to the context more clearly in future.
    I must be missing something here. Again, specificity is helpful.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2021
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  4. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    So, individual commits a crime, let's say murder, individual is prosecuted, and then isolated from the wider community by being jailed. Is this a cancellation?
     
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  5. amadeus

    amadeus Nilknarf!

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    Entirely anecdotal, but I've never heard it. Not a lot of time to post now, but doing a Japanese search returns the Japanese Wikipedia page on “Mongoloid” and contains what I suppose would be a rather dry explanation of the term used at the time with only a brief mention of it being (in the article’s words) depreciated in some circles.
     
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  6. Rashiminos

    Rashiminos Fool Prophet

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    I did.

    Not an equivalence, an inquiry.
    Previously I said that cancel culture seeks to instrumentalize authorities. In the case of a forum, that can typically mean expelling forum participants. The question is whether people were expelled from genuine forum activity, or was the impulse agitated by an infiltration? "Working the refs."

    I think if you substitute the word "mutate" for the second "change" in this quote, you'd have a better understanding of my comments up to this statement.

    More natural? Okay. So what's the counterpart to that? Yes, there are a number of factors distinguishing reddit's system from the system CFC uses. That alters strategic requirements, not the underlying agenda, if it's there. Making the agitation resemble genuine forum participation is not an unwelcome adaptation.

    It's at risk of being adopted at the meta level (arguably again). The ideological groupings with the most resistance to adopting it and employing it are pacifistic in orientation.

    We're arguing at different levels of abstraction. You're opting for the narrow, particular focus on CFC. I'm arguing that reddit and other environments are sufficiently analogous that some activities that take place there (where, at a distance, it may be easier for you to acknowledge said activity is at work) could possibly take place here. That a significant number of details don't match does not necessarily break my argument.

    You did say you thought it was primarily a reactionary tactic.
    Speaking metaphorically, if someone or some people were inclined to cut throats for the sake of politics, what would they be more inclined to do? I don't think it's just specific topics. I think the political temperature is rising across the board.
     
  7. Rashiminos

    Rashiminos Fool Prophet

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    It would fit my definition.

    If the targets were criminals, however well or ill-defined, for instance.

    More cynically speaking, the choice of definition of criminal might belie the actual targets for criminalization, with the legal system being the authority gamed.
     
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  8. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    Your definition seems far too broad to be very useful.
     
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  9. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Super Moderator Supporter

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    Thunderfall has had explicit forum goals since the beginning and the staff works toward those goals in its moderation. CFC is pretty old school and has not kept up with the changing sensibilities of the millennials.

    Permabanning a poster here is a long drawn out process unless you post porn or hate links. It takes months and significant input from staff. Agitators would not be an effective approach.
     
  10. Rashiminos

    Rashiminos Fool Prophet

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    Forgive me, but I'm sensing you're taking this at a personal level I did not intend to disturb. The nature of the agitation has the effect of turning a legitimate process (how Thunderfall and CFC staff intend to run the site) away from its original purpose.

    Subversion is a long, drawn out process.
    I may be in error, but I do not think this forum always had this bent.
     
  11. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Super Moderator Supporter

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    Nothing to forgive, I am not taking any of this personally. I am just telling you how things here work behind the curtain. Long term subversion would take and effort that includes the staff. :lol: Who or what forces do you see as trying to subvert cfc to its wishes?
     
  12. Rashiminos

    Rashiminos Fool Prophet

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    Woke progressives, in this instance.
     
  13. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Super Moderator Supporter

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    The cfc woke progressives want to destroy OT and have other homes. CFC is just a residual in their posting life. I don't think any of the current staff would be considered woke progressives.
     
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  14. GenMarshall

    GenMarshall Lightforged Draenei Ghost Agent

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    Did you mention about the legend of the Moderator’s Fridge and how the new guy has to keep it stocked for a week? ;)
     
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  15. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Super Moderator Supporter

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    That is no legend my boy, It is as real as you and me. Been there done that. ;)
     
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  16. Akka

    Akka Moody old mage.

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    No, it didn't demonstrated anything, it was just a claim.
    I explicitely spelled out a contradiction and pointed at it, I don't see how you can find any sort of ambiguity here. That's just some pretty heavy reaching.
     
  17. Bugfatty300

    Bugfatty300 Buddha Squirrel

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    Good to know that no one here has any excuses to keep being coy and obtuse about what they actually believe.
     
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  18. Yeekim

    Yeekim Moderator Moderator

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    I self-identify as a somnolent progressive.
     
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  19. bernie14

    bernie14 Filter Manipulator

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    Have only read the last 2 or 3 pages... i find the conversations sort of appallingly funny, like the Abbott and Costello's "whose on first" skit, where there is a semantic "misunderstanding" and both the funny man and the straight man participate in furthering the situation. Which one is the fool?

    To me, there is a strange blur between psychology and sociology that i have not been able to parse....the individual vs the collective, as to there relationship to the conscious vs the unconscious (or implicit bias). To me, it just sounds like those entrenched in "conflict theory" will not compromise due to the "moral implications" of the "oppressor/oppressed" narrative.

    From what i have read, i am on @Rashiminos "side", but then again, "ok, boomer" :p
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2021
  20. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    Of course, there were fine people on both sides...many sides.
     

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