Cannon rushes

[strijder20]

My latest two games ended with a cannon rush and I've grown rather fond of the little guns-on-wheels.

Advantages/disadvantages

First, let us summarize the pros and the cons of cannon rushes:

Pro:
+ Powerful 12 strength unit
+ Only obsolete once your enemy gets cavalry
+ Collateral damage makes it excellent for decimating monster stacks
+ Can be supported by any unit you like - maces, muskets and pikes all work
+ Access to the City Raider line

Cons:
- Slow
- Poor on defense
- Depends on early Liberalism

How to cannon rush

I've followed a similar bulb path in both games: Bulb Philo, tech Paper, partially bulb Education, tech to Engineering and Gunpowder, tech PPress, partially bulb Chemistry, tech Liberalism. The main problem here is that you really need a solid commerce base, as Engineering-Gunpowder-Printing Press is very expensive (the latter can be bulbed if you can get a fifth Gscientist out in time). Philosophical and Financial are really helpful here.

Catapults/Trebuchets can be prebuilt and subsequently upgraded. Civics should obviously be Slavery-Theocracy-Vassalage for mass-whipping cannons and clean-up troops.

The main problem with cannon-rushes is that Cuirassiers can be gotten much faster, and move a lot faster on the campaign map too. However, they are an excellent alternative if you have no horses.

As I stated, you have to be ahead of the AI. On my latest (Emperor) game I got Liberalism/Steel by 980 AD; if I would have teched Liberalism immediately I'd have got it by 650 AD. 1000 AD already starts to be on the late side, although there was no risk yet.

Cannons are rather brutally efficient. Take a look at those screenshots:

Spoiler :

Ignoring the fast workers, I lost a musketman and two cannons in the wars. Compare that to the amount of units killed:

Spoiler :

which amounts to about 150. 50/1 kill/loss ratio is far beyond any ratio you'll get with cuirassiers. You'll still need numbers to reduce all of the defenders to 20% health, but a constant stream of reinforcements isn't necessary when working with cannons (allowing you to split up in two stacks).

Fun fact: I did not win that game by Domination, as Sitting Bull decided to bring up the Religious leader resolution in the Apostolic Palace.

Spoiler :

 

[Choggy]

I like this.

I'd disagree with Cannon being obsoleted by Cavalry though (they'll do a job on the likes of Infantry if you have enough of them) - Pike are still useful and Combat 2 Grenadiers will do a decent job of protecting your Cannon stack, especially as Mil Science is both cheap and on the same area of the tech tree as Chemistry/Steel. And of course if the AI have Cavalry then they also have Rifles which also need defending against...

 

[Izuul]

+ Only obsolete once your enemy gets cavalry

Cavalry? More like Marines or Mech Infantry or Modern Armor something along those lines. Cannons can take out Infantry and Tanks as long as you have some decent defenders with them.

 

[sinimusta]

I disagree on the liberalism part, I actually just played a deity game, winning domination with cannons and it was without lib. I think cuirassiers are more lib dependent although lib is not mandatory with them either. But cannons can deal with enemy having rifles and grenadiers whereas I think cuirs wars are over with rifles (provided that the difference in numbers isn't too high).

One problem with cannons is that when beelining cannons they're your strongest units and then they can get attacked. Before you get rifles or grens you lack a strong stack defender, but if the AI is passive enough this isn't too much of an issue.

 

[strijder20]

I like this.

I'd disagree with Cannon being obsoleted by Cavalry though (they'll do a job on the likes of Infantry if you have enough of them) - Pike are still useful and Combat 2 Grenadiers will do a decent job of protecting your Cannon stack, especially as Mil Science is both cheap and on the same area of the tech tree as Chemistry/Steel. And of course if the AI have Cavalry then they also have Rifles which also need defending against...

Cavalry? More like Marines or Mech Infantry or Modern Armor something along those lines. Cannons can take out Infantry and Tanks as long as you have some decent defenders with them.

Yes, that might have come across the wrong way; I meant cannons an sich obsolete with enemy cavalry. If you have grenadiers or even better, rifles, then you should indeed be in no trouble.

I disagree on the liberalism part, I actually just played a deity game, winning domination with cannons and it was without lib. I think cuirassiers are more lib dependent although lib is not mandatory with them either. But cannons can deal with enemy having rifles and grenadiers whereas I think cuirs wars are over with rifles (provided that the difference in numbers isn't too high).

Can you bulb steel? Yes, Steel is rather expensive, but you're right, self-teching should work (Liberalism is just a lot cheaper).

One problem with cannons is that when beelining cannons they're your strongest units and then they can get attacked. Before you get rifles or grens you lack a strong stack defender, but if the AI is passive enough this isn't too much of an issue.

Addng a sentry horse archer to your stack can really help you avoid rushing right into an enemy stack. Once they get Engineering it doesn't really work as well anymore though.

 

[UncleJJ]

Cannons are indeed very powerful and one of my favourite ways to go for a Domination victory (including AP and Diplomatic victories as Domination lite). They work particularly well with draft muskets (early) and draft rifles later.

I find using them as the main leverage to a victory, rather than say Cuirassiers, makes most sense on a map with plenty of water, so continental and archipelago maps are especially good. This is because water maps need a navy (starting with galleons and frigates) to invade other land masses and so that part of the research tree is needed. Also the slower movement of cannons and their musket defender / attacker companions is greatly speeded up when carried on ships. This is particularly true when moving through enemy culture where ships are not slowed at all and mounted troops only move 2 tiles (on flat terrain) and cannons a mere 1 tile. In coastal areas it can be quicker to load the cannons and other troops onto a ship, move the ship, then move the ship next turn and disembark, then attack on turn 3. Leapfrogging down the coast like this can be very effective before the enemy gets railroads.

Cannons provide great attacking firepower and can reduce defences and collateral damage to help the drafted muskets and other troops take the city or destroy the enemy main army. Later I like to add machine guns as stack protectors and upgrading grenadiers or crossbowmen can give some very strong machine guns with CD3 or Woodman 3 or even Guerilla 2 depending on the terrain.

Once I've researched Steel I like to get grenadiers and then backtrack (or trade) for rifles. Then I continue the research path along the bottom of the research tree picking up Transports and Destroyers and Flight to ensure naval superiority. The combination of Fighters on Carriers really help amphibious invasions based on cannons and other troops.

The next priority would be researching Artillery to upgrade all those highly promoted cannons and avoid the danger from cavalry as well as a big increase in strength.

 

[rah]

However, they require no resources, making them an excellent alternative if you have no horses or iron.

I thought cannons required iron.

 

[strijder20]

I thought cannons required iron.

Odd, I just came in the thread to edit this and then I saw your post.

Yeah, they require Iron. I suppose it's so common I've never noticed it's lack.

 

[The Rook]

Civics should obviously be Slavery-Theocracy-Vassalage for mass-whipping cannons and clean-up troops.

Caste can be a very powerful alternative to slavery at this stage. Workshops are very strong Post-Chemistry.

I'm doubtful whether Vassalage is really worth sacrificing a strong Bureau cap, unless the extra XP can buy an extra promotion. Also, Nationhood may be worth considering for drafted Muskets.

 

[Pangaea]

I've tried Vassalage, but I'm not a big fan. In most cases it won't give you an extra promotion anyway, if you for example run Theocracy, and I'd much rather have Buro early on, and Nationhood later for drafting, preferably Rifles. Drafting builds up anger pretty darn quickly (+3 each time), so I'd rather wait for the Rifles unless I need Muskets or even Maces right away to mop up. A drafted Rifle army is incredibly powerful, almost gamebreaking really, so if you can take advantage of that, go right ahead. You get only half XP with drafting, but with barracks+Theo you still get one promotion, which is fine really as they can't get City Raider out of the gates anyway. Upgraded Maces, however....

As you write, you need a solid commerce base to be able to Lib Cannons, which in my games at least means an earlier war to acquire land. With some luck it can be manoeuvred by good diplomacy too, especially if you manage to Paper-block all other AIs. Not giving away Philo early can help too. Get the lot into wars early, which will stifle them technologically too, and with some luck of the draw you can tech ahead while they strangle each other.

I don't know what's the best bulbing strategies, as I'm not great at that, but in the typical games I try to get many GS early, build an Academy, maybe bulb Philo, then 1-2 into Edu. I used to not prefer to double-bulb Edu as it felt like a waste of that could be put towards Chemistry or (usually) Printing Press, but doubling it means you can finish Edu before any AI start it, which means there is a lower chance of them picking Edu to begin with, giving you a bigger window to tech towards Cannons.

 

[cseanny]

Cannons are a long way off, and I've seen some very good players beeline them and end up losing because it took too long. When not going the Cuir route I prefer a simple beeline like Math (trade Alpha) > Currency (accumulate gold while waiting for 1st GS for early academy then max research Currency) > CoL > CS (in the 500-300 BC range really speeds up everything else) > MC > Machinery > trade for Cons > Eng. A simple 7-8 city empire with 1 Bureau Capital lets you start whipping Mace (forges in place) right around 1AD and Trebs several turns after. By around 350-500 BC you've got around 15 Mace/ 15 Treb.

Stomp a neighbor and let conquest gold help fuel research. Then self research PHILO > Paper and with some planning its not difficult to get another random GP, start a GA and switch civics, and squeeze out 2 more GS (guaranteed cause only Libraries) and use those to bulb 1x Edu, 1x PP, and then you tech Lib to 1turn short > GP > Chemistry and grab Steel as free tech. On Immortal the timing usually works out in the 960 - 1010 AD range.........and the early war let you expand your empire to 12-14 cities during the process too.