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Cannot deal with AI's massive unit spam at difficulty 5

Discussion in 'Strategy Section' started by 10101100, Jun 26, 2020.

  1. 10101100

    10101100 Chieftain

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    The ai will put all their units in 2 lines to protect the cities ok, anytime I kill any of their unit they instantly replace it. If I move a single unit forward it's going to die INSTANTLY

    Losing units literally doesn't affect the ai at all because they have massive unit production discounts, start with more exp, gain exp faster, have higher supply and better infrastructure than me. I don't know how to win domination


    The situation possibly gets better at epic and marathon since the AI's massive production and gold gains they get for settling, entering a new era etc. don't scale with gamespeed, and it takes much more to create units, but I don't want to take 2 weeks to play a game
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2020
  2. amateurgamer88

    amateurgamer88 Emperor

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    Depending on the era, there are different tools available to you. In general, you have to use terrain and Citadels if you want to whittle down enemies so that you can eventually reach their cities. This can often require a lot of patience. For example, I currently have a playthrough where my war was started in early Classical Era and still ongoing in Medieval Era. Sometimes, you have a tough city to crack and must approach it carefully and methodically. If you can provide more information like screenshots of the city you want to take, it would be easier to give more feedback.
     
  3. kawyua

    kawyua Warlord

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    you're playing on quick speed right? trying to win domination at that speed is hard. are you having difficulty in the wars after the first? For me, warmongering fervor goes real fast to 75% and my units die really fast. In order to adjust for that I go up the drill tree and take stalwart as fast as i can.

    If you are playing on a quicker speed going for domination, a civ that has a very powerful military spike is quite needed. The first war is nearly always the hardest, especially if you are trying to achieve that in quick, when the ai can potentially get an era ahead and upgrade in military just after a couple of turns. Its also very important that your first war goes well and you get your promotions going such as your frontliners getting to stalwart, as soon as you can.

    A timed attack on a civ with a strong tanky UU is your best bet in quick because a tanky UU that can sit down in front of enemy units and fortify will bog up and create a safe ZOC for you to siege the enemy down, so even if the enemy has a massive army you can be able to take down enemy units and move your army up. You really want a giant hunk of a melee unit like byzantium cataphracts, musketeer, maori warrior, any of the spearman UU. have your strong frontliner in your first timed attack to be how you win the first war and get the promotions you need like stalwart then you can handle the combat difficulties with domination victory. Its inevitable you'll fall behind the ai trying to conquer, so you need to keep up with defensive promotions to keep up with the advanced ai units.

    I made a whole playthrough with byzantium using cataphracts for my first timed attack, it is on standard speed though. It was against persia and even though persia had a massive army with his unique unit and some upgraded, I had a strong frontliner to allow me to be able to seige safely.
    guess i should link playlist
    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhXXY8MGnOWCRiSjYeTJxJ0qObCns1X59
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2020
  4. 10101100

    10101100 Chieftain

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    I play on a modified quick speed, 100% science and unit cost, 50% buildings cost (vs 66%), 0% worker improvemnt time (builder improves/builds things instantly)

    Idk if this game speed breaks the game somehow, I can consistently win at difficulty 4


    I always try to beeline some powerful tech and start war then, but it still doesn't matter because, even if I send knights against spearmen/horseman, they instantly die because the AI will always take losing fights (like doing 15 damage and losing 50). As a human player I can't afford to bruteforce a war just by throwing a bunch of units at the enemy

    I also never take authority, always start in the classical era, get progress and only start wars in the medieval era, classical era only if I get extremely lucky and have a weak neighbor.
    Maybe the game will be easier if I start in ancient era with standard speed
     
  5. amateurgamer88

    amateurgamer88 Emperor

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    You definitely cannot, at higher difficulties, trade units with the AI. The AI will tend to have more units and reinforce a bit faster so you are fighting a losing battle. Starting in Classical Era certainly matters since everyone is more or less on equal footing in military. Mathematics and Iron Working provides more units but it's harder to get an advantage until Medieval. As for getting powerful tech, my question is what are you sacrificing to achieve those? Are you suffering in production because you're focusing on science buildings? Are you getting units without Armories because you need to get your units out asap to fight your enemies? Is your army diverse in units or are you focusing solely on a single unit like Knights only? Having a diverse army matters quite a bit because you need ranged units to whittle down the enemy, frontline units like Longswordsman to hold enemy at bay through terrain or Citadel. Knights can be great in punch holes in enemy lines as long as you can withdraw them and not lose them in the process. There are so many factors which was why said that screenshots are helpful. They provide a lot of information to help us figure out what wasn't working and what can work.
     
  6. Cokolwiek

    Cokolwiek Prince

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    Well. I don't agree. You can and should trade units in order to get something done, especially to secure city captures. I do sacrifice my units quite a lot to hold the line when sieging. Or just to get to siege. I also do that because on deity I need to conquer fast to vassalize and move to the next. It is theoretically more efficient but in practice players who do that in their playthroughs on YouTube are taking ten or fifteen more turns to end the war or capture a single city. While waisting production to build a herbalist in non-camp, non-plantations city. Which may cost them dearly because some AI may start to snowball far away. Another thing is you definitely can outproduce AI in units and I do it all the time. I made a thread about it. Many times tradition, sometimes authority even. You reach the point when you take their third or fourth city, and there are no reinforces coming or single units. There are no more left. Not in general when they are at full strength, but during the war, if they suffer much heavier losses than you, like one your unit lost for their three, then you can. But I tend to be quite effective at managing city production and tiles and buildings in general, that's my main strength in VP, so that's also that.
     
  7. amateurgamer88

    amateurgamer88 Emperor

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    I disable vasslization so I don't have that luxury having quick wars that can get me ahead and let me move onto other targets. For newer players, I wouldn't recommend this strategy as they aren't fully equipped to do so in an effective way. Once players get comfortable with the strengths and weaknesses of units, then they can develop their own play style. While some of your points are correct, the players on YouTube like the challenge of losing few or no units in wars. It's the satisfaction they get and they shouldn't be judged for playing differently.
     
  8. Cokolwiek

    Cokolwiek Prince

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    Lol, they don't take any satisfaction, it's no point of honor just a game play mechanic, they just think it's more efficient like many people, because they mostly drag this notion from vanilla. And it's not as universal now. Anyway getting satisfaction in outplaying already impaired AI in war-related decisions which structurally cannot make as good moves as a human with its units is like a chess master who takes satisfaction in outplaying a child who sees the chessboard for the first time. I wasn't referencing you by any means, don't feel "judged". That's a wrong feeling for playing a game. Guys I watch DO want as quick vassalization as possible. They just stick to old habits. because it's safer. But it's more boring to watch, that why I pointed that out.
     

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