Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by InFlux5, Dec 23, 2013.
You guys are forgetting why salt provides happiness.
Pre refrigeration salt was one of the most important products on the planet. Simply put, without it people starved to death.
It preserved food so people had enough to eat throughout winter. That's why it produces food.
Here's Wikipedia historical entry of table salt.
Some of the earliest evidence of salt processing dates back to around 6,000 years ago, when people living in Romania were boiling spring water to extract the salts; a saltworks in China has been found which dates to approximately the same period. Salt was prized by the ancient Hebrews, the Greeks, the Romans, the Byzantines, the Hittites and the Egyptians. Salt became an important article of trade and was transported by boat across the Mediterranean Sea, along specially built salt roads, and across the Sahara in camel caravans. The scarcity and universal need for salt has led nations to go to war over salt and use it to raise tax revenues. Salt is also used in religious ceremonies and has other cultural significance.
Historians now think this is a myth. So, unlike salt's preservative power, spices aren't actually going to make food last longer (nor was it ever used to preserve rancid meat).
Maybe the effect of salt could change through history or the effect of salt could accumulate through history. Meaning it could start with increasing trade route length and then add another effect and another and keep all of those effects throughout the game.
Copper= 10% when building Melee units.
It would really cool if somebody make a mod like this.
False. One pound of clove was worth 7 oxen in medieval England. You think they would put something that expensive on rotten meat? Spices were a major status symbol and people attributed medicinal value to them, as they believed it could protect them from black plague.
not entirely false. In europe it might be the truth. But in SE asia, heavily spiced meat, such as rendang proved to not rot for 2 or more weeks. BUT, rendang is also salted by some extent.
To answer the OP, for roughly the same reason that Hospitals provide 5: there isn't any other way to represent it in the game.
Yeah, but not clove, mace or nutmeg. Those were exclusive from Spice Islands, so they were expensive even in Asia. But, as you said, when people talk about spices, they're thinking about the spice trade that moved Columbus, Vasco da Gama and Mangellan's discoveries. You don't go around the world just to save yesterday's dinner.
And apparently you can use them to store all of your dead deer too.
On whether or not spices can make food last longer, I'd be much more interested in the opinion of a scientist than a historian.
If, however, you're saying that historians now think people in hot climates have not historically used spices so much, then great, but I fail to see how that necessarily implies that spices do not have preserving properties.
This is true, indeed. Salt preserves. I forgot about this side of it completely doing my previous post, shame on me!
Here i'd just like to add about massive electrochemical potential which salt creates when it's in water or some water-containing substance. This kills vast majority of microorganisms - it literally blows 'em up, so to say. This is what makes it such a great food preserver, iirc; but also, this same thing makes salt an excellent and important healing agent, of sorts: much like it kills any silly bacteria which just tried to rot that piece of meat one preserved for winter, - it also kills nearly any "intruder" bacteria inside our bodies, because our native bacterial microflora - is protected by our own epithelium and other similar systems of the body, but intruder microorganisms are often not.
So it's not just food preserver; i guess it's also a healing agent (if not over-consumed, of course), - especially in old times when there were no anti-biotics, and for other (than human) mammals up to present time.
How would a hospital manage to produce food seems like a bigger wtf question to me. Are they eating people that have died in there?
Salt provides food because it can preserve food. Salt used to be used way before refrigeration to make food last and prevent it from spoiling. Salt was used in meats more tto make it last longer. Salt is still used in meats today too. However, why does salt make people happy? Salt could might as well be another bonus resource.
haha, well you have to remember that food essentially provides population growth. A hospital (representing modern medicine) would dramatically lower infant mortality, basically having that same effect. Not to mention improve the health of adults so they have more babies.
I was talking about neither. I was simply addressing whether, historically, spices were used to hide the taste of rotting or spoiled meat (they weren't). I wasn't addressing whether they could (although I suspect there are other problems with eating spoiled meat even if you couldn't taste it). To the extent that the game draws from history for inspiration, it wouldn't make sense for spices to have to do with food.
yeah.... while sugar doesn't (roll eyes at devs) or wine (I guess they just don't eat grapes in that world) and if you create a plantation on a jungle citrus you end up with LESS food (WHY????)
Depends on what you mean by "spice"
Meat? I'm not so sure, but I do know chili peppers were used to preserve vegetables (kimchi)
Or maybe citrus could have that effect (as a deterrent of scurvy); maybe to simulate the trans-Saharan trade routes, salt can have some bonus for trade routes through desert?
Well, you and I are both modders, why don't we get to work on it?
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