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Can't make leap from King to Emperor

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by wiser3, Aug 25, 2014.

  1. wiser3

    wiser3 Chieftain

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    I find King level difficulty too easy and boring. I can easily win as any Civ, in any way, on any map.

    However, i find Emperor level difficulty to be frustratingly impossible. Clearly i need to maintain a larger army and go for fewer wonders at this level. Any other advice???

    Thanks
     
  2. dragonxxx

    dragonxxx King

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    just focus on science and u are gonna be fine. that means - early National College, tech to education, then Sci Theory, then Radio, then Plastics. Here and there u can take some other techs, but if u follow that path in general its impossible to lose on Emp, no matter what VC you want to play for.
     
  3. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

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    On Emperor level, the Great Liberty is very sensitive to your early hammer production. Unless your start is above average, skip. (Skipping is good practice for Immortal)

    There's a host of other ancient era wonders that if you really want you can still get at this level, but its iffy to go after 2 ancient era wonders in the same game at this level (you'll get beat to whichever one you went after second)

    Science is King tactics as above.

    Also avoid the Piety start until you've won a few Emperor level games. (You can still win with Piety start on Emperor but its more difficult than either Tradition or Liberty.)
     
  4. RatesAnalyst

    RatesAnalyst Chieftain

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    As an Emperor player myself can I just add that science is King - but there are plenty of princes too. Science should be your focus, and the techs above should be prioritised, but Emperor required me to actively focus a bit more broadly than lower levels did. Science should define your tech choices, but not necessarily your build choices, for example.

    On Emperor I needed more effort on my army (rather than simply knowing I had the tech lead). I had to plan which techs to research in which order so that I could start a wonder immediately on researching the necessary tech and (hopefully) before other Civs even had the tech. Remember that the AI civs will be ahead of you in tech early on in Emperor so if you just happen to see a Wonder you can now build, odds are the AI will have been able to build it for 10 or 20 turns already - and one of them will have. I also had to deliberately plan to collect culture too (even for a domination victory). Science is King - but there are lots of Princes.

    My first few games on Emperor I over-focused on science to the detriment of my army. And then I got wiped out by invasion forces. It's possible/likely that if you're invaded early the attackers will have more advanced units than you. This is tricky, but isn't actually the end of the world.

    Don't be overly frightened to fight the AI on your own turf. Defence can be the best form of attack, particularly if you're outnumbered. Just because they attacked you with three times as many units as you have, or more advanced units than you have, doesn't mean you'll lose... Retreat back to where your cities can attack the invaders too (and a fortified meat shield Melee unit gets healed each turn...) and you might stand a chance.

    Pay particular attention to the terrain if this should happen. For example, Fortify a strong unit on a hill next to a river and invite the invaders into an amphibious cross-river, uphill attack against a unit with a flanking bonus. Then hit them with ranged units and/or city bombards.
     
  5. wiser3

    wiser3 Chieftain

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    From what i've learned playing Emperor so far this is all great advice everyone.

    Thanks!
     
  6. MrDumpstertrash

    MrDumpstertrash Chieftain

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    So I went from King to Emperor just a few months ago, now I play on Immortal. My first game was very suspect on Emperor, as I only focused on science (Hit a SV). This is what I do:
    Tech writing no matter what first
    Then Tech my lux
    Beeline Construction
    Take earliest cap with 4 composite and a warrior or two.

    or

    Instead of taking cap get 4 strong cities and focus on only science (and a few units). You will sling shot yourself around the time you hit education.

    Make sure you only get wonders if it seems realistic. I've gotten oracle on Immortal because it was realistic for that game.

    Pay attention to happiness

    Neighbors aren't much more aggressive at this level, but if there isn't anything important to fit in, build a unit!

    DON'T BE A BUILDING WHORE. STOP IT. YOU DO NOT NEED EVERY BUILDING. TRUST ME.

    You should be fine honestly. Remember the OMG factor you had when leaping from Prince to King? It is the same scale from King to Emperor. After one game you will be fine (Like I said, my first game was a painful SV, my last was a CV with France raking in 550+ culture and 300 tourism a turn by 1750, trust me you get used to the change quickly).


    Don't build fewer wonders, just less at the beginning. If you hit a tech first, go for it. If you are the only one with freedom, SOL duh. Use common sense. If you miss the wonder, use the $ to buy a unit
     
  7. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    I finally upgraded to BNW from GnK, winning my first game (SV, Immortal, pretty much playing like I do GnK, but learning all the new features). I want to fully explore the SP trees, so I will drop down to Emperor for a Piety start. Thanks for that tip!

    How much harder is an Honor start? I would be giving up all of Tradition and Liberty (not because it's strategic, but because I am experimenting), and not aiming for a Domination Victory until unlocking Autocracy.

    Why writing before lux techs? (This might be something I am doing wrong.) So long as NC up before ~T100, why is writing so important? It may be a mistake, but I often find myself even getting construction before writing!
     
  8. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    I think it all depends on what victory condition you're seeking, but some universal advice might be:

    1. Explore your surroundings faster - i.e. faster than you need to on lower difficulty levels. Find out who your neighbours are, and assess what their attitude is going to be towards you, whether they are likely to covet your lands or DoW you. And whether you can trade them. Try to look how they are positioned with regards to other AIs, and whether you can exploit that diplomatically to keep them from turning their attention to you. And above all, find the ruins, the CS, the barb camp quests and as many AIs as possible before T60. The more AIs you find, the faster you will tech, and the more you will begin to understand how the overall diplo game is going to pan out - i.e. "Ah, I can see Maria forward settled Genghis, that's gonna mean....", etc.

    You can win easily on King without exploring properly, but on Emperor and above, it's crucial. Put it this way, if I'm doing a tradition opener on Standard size Pangaea, I start by building 3 scouts. Liberty opener I do Scout, Monument, Scout, and sometimes add a 3rd.

    2. Really choose what tech is best for you at any given moment, AS WELL as thinking about which techs you want in the next 20 turns, and where you wanna be. Don't research a tech unless it gives you a tangible benefit or is needed towards your goal.

    3. Forget the wonders. You CAN get the early wonders on Emperor, even the GL and Stonehenge, but since you're moving up and it's VERY hard to get them on Immortal and Deity, why not get used to building your early game around the idea of not having them? The best wonders are SP-specific anyway. If you're gonna go Liberty, you have a good chance of Pyramids which is the best wonder in the game, but less so the HG because a lot of AIs go Tradition. Statue of Zeus is only worth it if you're gonna try to take 2 capitals before Turn 100, IMO.

    4. If your plan is domination rather than peace, science isn't as important as some people make out, IMO. A liberty domination game depends on having troops that the AI can't deal with, either more advanced, or lots of them. I've won domination on Deity whilst still being 5 techs behind. Just don't go TOO far behind that your troops go up against stuff YOU can't handle. Bottom line: If they have pikes, you need pikes to stand between them and your CBs. If they have long swordsmen, you need a lot of XBs. Stuff like that. My strategy is always to take out a weak civ like India or Portugal very early, maybe squeeze another capital in before T100, and then sit back, grow MY cities (not the puppets) and tech to artillery.

    Hope you do well. Good luck!
     
  9. Memoryjar

    Memoryjar Emperor

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    On Emperor, on standard maps, you'll never see an ideology if you went into a domination victory with honor.
    A classic start is 2/3 cities -> units. You will be a little late against Liberty at first, and at last against Tradition. Opening and Military Caste ensure you ending Honor around T85/100.
    Honor ending will nerf you're lack of gold.
     
  10. JeSuisNapoleon

    JeSuisNapoleon Prince

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    getting writing early helps make sure you can build libraries early, which allows for the NC early, and helps produce a bit of science.

    You should not run out of happiness too early anyway, so getting the lux tech a little later should not hurt much.

    that said, if you could get 2 developed lux super early, that can/will pay large profits if you can trade one to the AI early. Keep that in mind. Its very situational, but worth it.

    usually writing is the priority, then lux.
     
  11. phillipwyllie

    phillipwyllie Wannabe Deity

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    Most of the things I would have said have already been said except this: you need to get into the habit of locking tiles in every city with the focus geared towards growth. Any city that grows a new :c5citizen: in 10 turns or less without the need for a trade route is a good city(assuming there is workable hills). Consider building granaries before libraries in your expos, especially if they are near wheat, bananas, or deer.

    A strong capital means a strong empire, send the first 3 trade routes to your capital and build the Iron Works in it. That way most wonders are yours and you'll be sure to win an early World's Fair. Also rush buy a university in your cap even if it would only take 5 turns, you want the science now.

    Even on Deity you can neglect tourism but not culture, with a strong capital you can build the Writers and Artist guilds and be able to work the specialist off the bat.

    I would recommend installing Enhanced User Interface DLC (BNW / G&K / Vanilla 1.0.3.144) although a mod it is installed as a dlc so wont affect achievements.
     
  12. Laurwin

    Laurwin Prince

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    if science is king...

    -then surely pop is queen, I suppose...For pops, growth and apples are required.

    -more pop brings available to you: more science, more hammers, and more gold from city connections and gold tiles (usually lux tiles)

    I'm transitioning to emperor also. But, I do like to dabble between prince level (no, AI bonuses) as well, to test out some early game strategies etc...

    I suppose your strategy would have to be different between multiplayer and single player for that reason?

    In multiplayer environment, your enemies do not have bonuses like the AI does at the beginning. (AIs get hammer bonuses, happyness bonuses, extra worker, extra tech archery...etc...)

    In multiplayer, only the city states and maybe barbs would be affected by difficulty settings. Making them slightly tougher adversaries.

    But I suppose, for multiplayer purposes, only playing multiplayer will prove effective training for that environment... ultimately :)
     
  13. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

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    Babylon is actually the only civ that needs to always go Pottery - Writing as first two techs to max out its UA. Every other civ can go Pottery - [one tech such as Mining] - Writing without slowing down construction of the library.
    The rest of the advice which may be suitable for a self founded wide start, doesn't look good for tall tradition. (That's way too early for Construction, going tall you want a 2 or 3 city NC first. And there are a host of buildings in which you need a copy of it in each and every city for national wonders, which is the other part of playing tall.)

    Emperor is also a level in which you should consider which world record already a situation period is best, don't blindly choose the first world wonder you have the tech for following completing something.

    Actually if you skipped early wonders almost entirely, King to Emperor is a very small increase in difficulty. (And in G&K was actually slightly easier due to the AI having some more early free gold) It's Emperor to Immortal where the AI gets a free worker that's as big of an increase as jumping directly from Prince to Emperor would be. (Immortal to Deity as an ever bigger leap in difficulty.)

    The Honor tree doesn't really have anything of value for a first tree compared to the other ones. If you think of it as a possible second tree to go after following the first tree for war mongling, the timing of its benefits work out better.

    As above, Babylon is the only civ that needs to start Pottery - Writing. All other civs can place one luxury tech such as Writing between the two without slowing down construction of the library. You do want the capitals library up quickly to make reasonable tech progress. If playing tall tradition, getting NC up is more important than construction but things might be different for self founded wide liberty starts.
     
  14. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    Okay, but I want a Dom V with Autocracy, so I hear you saying I should stick with Immortal.

    I think I have a dilemma, as I want a win, but play is the thing. I think I may find Immortal opening Honor to be too hard, but Emperor opening Honor to be too easy...
     
  15. EgonSpengler

    EgonSpengler Deity

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    Some random bits from my own gameplay (I also play on Emperor). Maybe they'll be helpful.

    • Seek out City State quests. The Food and Culture bonuses can be big, and the free ground units can make your whole army. In my last game, as Brazil, I built maybe 3 ground units all game and had a decent army from 3 Militaristic City States.
    • Don't kill Barbarian camps right away unless you have to. Save them for when a City State gives you a quest to destroy them.
    • Kidnap a worker from a City State early (e.g. just declare war and capture it), preferably before you've met many other Civs. You can make a peace deal the very same turn, so the CS won't even be able to shoot back. Don't do this twice, though, as your Resting Point with the CS and any nearby CS' will be permanently lowered. In a decent Emperor game, you won't waste time building any Workers at all.
    • I can't always arrange it, but I find that a successful early war against a neighbor can set me up for the rest of the game.
     
  16. MrDumpstertrash

    MrDumpstertrash Chieftain

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    You were right about that, I do prefer Liberty over Tradition so I should have mentioned that. I like hitting Writing first so when I can fit a library into my queue I do it. Like someone else said earlier, I never have happiness issues going straight for Writing, so going for my lux tech second hasn't ever hurt me. And yes the Emperor to Immortal jump is stupid, I won my first game but am fighting tooth and nail in my second.

    Also for OP, note what people have said earlier, LOCK DOWN THOSE TILES. One of the most important things is managing your cities properly.
     
  17. tetley

    tetley Head tea leaf

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    I think I disagree about science being king on Emperor. Hammers are king. Hammers give you the settlers, libraries, granaries, units you need. Once you make the jump to immortal, though, you run into situations where you can't put the hammers to very good use, because you haven't researched the techs you need to build stuff.
     
  18. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    Seeking out CS quests is fun, and prioritizing military CS has been very helpful to my game. FWIW, I am reasonably successful at Immortal with very little of the other three. I am saving those strats for when I move up to Deity or should I start obsessing over number of turns!

    Managing cities is important, but I am reasonably successful at Immortal without hardly any tile locking. Almost certainly it is something I will need for Deity play. Also it certainly cultivates attention to detail and other strong play habits, but I think most people underestimate the focus governors. OTOH, manual specialist control can have noticeable game impact.
     
  19. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

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    I think you can still try the Honor opening on Emperor with plans to get to Autocracy as long as the map size you choose is Large (or bigger) and its not a Pangaea.
     
  20. Darviathar

    Darviathar Chieftain

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    I know it is probably not a popular move, but I disable Ancient ruins for my games at Emperor with the rationale being that the computer starts with more units, is likely to explore the map faster, and thus likely to gain more benefit from them. There are few things more disheartening than getting a great start in the desert with incense and being unable to get either desert folklore or the +1 culture/+1 faith pantheons, simply because the computer is exploring like mad and getting free faith from ancient ruins.

    I think this may limit the # of archaeological dig sites later in game though.

    You've got to maintain a decent army at Emperor. If you look at demographics and see that your army is the smallest around, a neighbor may go from friendly to war without any provocation, especially if you are trying to just crank world wonders counting on that starting warrior to defend your territory.
     

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