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Can't Play Wide......

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by americanlt, Mar 18, 2016.

  1. americanlt

    americanlt Chieftain

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    I normally play on King with standard maps and win 80%. However, I always play 3-4 cities tall strategy. I am not really good at war and recently have been trying to play wide. What is the best civilization to play wide?? I am constantly either having problems with happiness and/or gold. Thanx
     
  2. inthesomeday

    inthesomeday Immortan

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    There are many great wide civilizations, but I'd say coming newly into wide play to try Russia, Maya, or the Inca. Any civ with a good building or improvement, or a good UA like Russia, is best for wide.
     
  3. danaphanous

    danaphanous religious fanatic

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    Yeah those guys are real nice for going wide and get good bonuses from it (Rome too!), however, they don't particularly address the problems he cited though: happiness and gold.

    These are the basic problems that a tradition player runs into, usually because they let all their cities grow fast and soon hit unhappiness. For wide you actually are better off locking your production tiles down in the beginning and keeping populations smaller. Try to settle near horses or a luxury to help with unhappiness. Build all the local happiness buildings: circus, colloseum, zoo, etc. when they become available in each city. Then let it grow a few more pop based on how much happiness it is producing locally. You can't go wrong with this strategy but you will have to learn to micromanage your citizens to take full advantage of this strategy. Don't check avoid growth unless you know what you're doing. I don't know the math but I noticed it just stops you from growing regardless of your food. Which means you might just be sitting there wasting food. It's better to manually lock some production tiles down.

    For extra happiness & money: the best place to start is a religion. Found one quickly and pick a few things that give extra happiness. It'll help you a lot. For this I recommend the Celts or Ethiopia. Tithes on a wide empire can be real nice as it'll quickly spread through your small cities and to neighbors giving you a huge population following your religion and nice gold. By renaissance I often see myself get 40 or more gpt from tithes and over 100 by the end. You can try a larger map size too as that'll help your unhappiness and make it easier to expand.

    For gold and city connection happiness: get your roads up quick after meritocracy and grow your capital (this is the only city you keep growing regularly as it raises the value of internal city connections and maximizes NC value). You should actually get MORE gold from going wide as you have more cities to build markets, etc. in, but in the beginning you can get a bit behind due to building maintenance. To compensate for this you should sell everything you can to the AI for gpt. Every resource you aren't using and every extra luxury they can't trade another back for. This will get you plenty of gold since you have more of these things in a wide empire. They'll eventually stop wanting your extra iron and horses but you can get a lot of gold for them up till renaissance I've found by this time you'll have markets and banks around your empire and plenty of trade routes to keep you going. Build these in the capital first because the multiplier will increase the value of your many city connections (the gold comes as income to the capital).

    After this. Just keep growing your outer cities each time you build a building to bring in more happiness in it, and make sure to build your monetary buildings and science building not long after the techs. Because your population stays lower an average midgame and you need more protection for the big empire in peripheral cities, many say it's best to go for workshops before universities. You'll find this'll help you keep up on the buildings in each city. I also use my extra gold to buy buildings to keep up, esp. saving for science buildings so I stay competitive. Around ideologies loads of new happiness comes in and you are then free to grow all your cities till the end of the game typically. I try to end with them all around 20 population. You can do this with order on a peaceful game.
     
  4. darkskies

    darkskies Warlord

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    Also consider map size, the penalties for going wide are less on huge maps. Also if you don't do well at war one other thing that often happens on huge maps is an AI decides to attack you, but by the time her/his forces have arrived a lot of them will be obsolete (I personally don't like that I wish they could be upgraded at any time, but I like the wars and want them to be harder the AI already has enough problems).
     
  5. americanlt

    americanlt Chieftain

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    Thanks. How about getting the National College around 100 turns? Is this still a good play if going wide?
     
  6. danaphanous

    danaphanous religious fanatic

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    Nearly all national wonders are deferred. To make the most of liberty and the 50% settler discount you want to get as many cities out as possible early. Because of this you might consider making a second city strong if you simply have to build a few early wonders build them there. There may be a time mid-settling where you can pull a quick national college but don't spend too much time on it or you'll lose some settling spots. T100 is fine for NC with a wide strategy in my opinion.
     
  7. inthesomeday

    inthesomeday Immortan

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    I usually find myself getting it around (n+1)*10 turns, where n=number of cities, if I'm actually really trying to focus it.
     
  8. Sebulous

    Sebulous Chieftain

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    If you want to play a wide game, I'd recommend Rome for the most fun. Nothing like playing wide with all your cities being production powerhouses.
     
  9. MechMedic130

    MechMedic130 Warlord

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    I'm not a huge fan of playing wide really, I just have more fun playing tall. I think I get tired of managing my smaller cities in the mid game. I'm a 3-4 city kind of guy usually. And you can totally play at war while playing tall but your goal is different. Rather than taking cities themselves, it's all about beating your enemy into favorable trade deals. Almost any city I take, unless it is extremely valuable and in a location that I can support, I'm going to raze or sell to a civ that is playing wide. Rather than having a vast Army I assemble small, specific strike forces to go raise hell then come home.

    I know some people love to play wide, but I love my huge thriving cities over small ones.
     
  10. claudiupb

    claudiupb King

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    Celts are a pretty good civ to play wide. Everything synergises well for them. They have a good chance for a good religion, that can give happiness, very important for wide play. They get the forest bias which is a source of early hammers. The UU is pretty good early game, when you are most vulnerable because of the rapid expansion. The UB is also decent since it gives happiness, but being an opera house replacement it comes at a pretty big hammer cost. But again it does give +3 happiness, and that means an extra 3 pop for each of your cities, a pretty big deal.

    Another civ really good for wide is Persia. Strong UU, extra happiness, extra gold and the longer golden age is a big plus.

    Egypt is also pretty good for wide following the same pattern: strong UU early game, extra happiness, extra gold (free temples), and the UA will let you get some decent wonders that can help. Plus it saves hammers on NC and other National Wonders.
     
  11. inthesomeday

    inthesomeday Immortan

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    Civs whose bonuses prefer wide play:
    America
    Iroquois
    Shoshone
    Maya
    Inca
    England
    Celts
    Netherlands
    Spain
    Rome
    Denmark
    Russia
    Poland
    Ottomans
    Byzantium
    Greece
    Arabia
    Persia
    Assyria
    Egypt
    Morocco
    Carthage
    Zulu
    Ethiopia
    Songhai
    China
    Japan
    Korea
    Siam
    Polynesia

    Maybe I am biased, no clue. Bolded are civs I'd say are top 5 wide inclination
     
  12. danaphanous

    danaphanous religious fanatic

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    lol, all the people raving about the Celts' ability to go wide and they didnt' even make your list of top 20? ;)

    I'd add them at least, their UA and UB easily means 5 extra happiness per city due to first choice on religions and the free faith. I find you don't have to pick a faith pantheon with them either because city-spamming in the forest bias start does it already faster. You can pick something else which is a nice change like hammers, growth, happiness, or culture. If Ethiopia makes it on your list so should they. They get a religion faster then anyone else playing wide and don't lose their UA doing it.
     
  13. inthesomeday

    inthesomeday Immortan

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    Ah shoot, forgot them. I was doing it by continent and I always forget the Celts when I think of Europe. Added.
    And eh the best part of Ethiopia is the UB. The other bonuses are mediocre at best, the combat bonus encourages you to minimize your empire. At 4 city tradition you still will only really get a bonus against wide players because all the other tradition players will have 4 cities too.
     
  14. danaphanous

    danaphanous religious fanatic

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    I recently did an Immortal Ethiopia game. They were a nice civ, but yeah I couldn't capitalize on their UA much. I tried to keep small but had such a great food pantheon and production in my capital I got ahead really quickly and settled 4 great city spots. My two neighbors decided to hate me for the entire game after that for taking all the best spots on the continent before they could. That and I may have stolen like 3 workers from the Ottomans ;). they DOWed like clockwork every 30 turns or so. Finally got tired of it and nearly wiped the Ottoman's out ending with 6 cities so I didn't have to worry about 2 fronts. They never did any damage to me even though I couldn't use my UA. I did a religious community/Swords into Plowshares for a change of pace that game since I didn't need the happiness and found RC can get you like twice the normal wonders. It's powerful! I got basically every wonder I cared about from the classical onward which is never my chosen playstyle on immortal but there was little else to do. It was interesting how big a difference that belief made with a large capital and the tradition bonuses. Ended the game with a SV like 20 techs ahead of everyone. That was basically the game where I decided I needed to play more Deity if I could kill immortal that badly fooling around.
     
  15. Convict

    Convict Warlord

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    I always play wide as I find it far more interesting with more decisions to make. My civ of choice id Poland- all the extra policies tend to make it easier. Of course you need more workers, troops etc.

    There is a trade off if you go towards the World Fair for instance as you can have more cities contributing. I try and have the NC by turn 150 .

    I am not suggesting this is the best strategy but for me it is more fun to play. I also tend to play small continents so more chance of not being bothered by another Civ early on.
     
  16. Illianor123

    Illianor123 Warlord

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    Egypt, tall capital with wonders, and then many supporting cities. Burial tomb is a free +2 happiness per city and helps with getting s throng religion (key to wide play)
     
  17. noto2

    noto2 Emperor

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    The game isn't balanced very well for wide play, but if you're going to do it I'd suggest going with the Celts and doing a religion heavy strategy, like mixing Liberty and Piety and taking as many happy bonuses as possible with your religion.

    Another fun civ for wide play is Byzantium, but it takes some getting used to. It's the one civ that might be better off opening the game with Piety, or at least opening Piety after getting the free settler from Liberty.

    Rome can work, if you go Liberty and make sure to stop conquering and focus on your infrastructure once you get big (10-12 cities maybe)

    I agree Korea is great for wide play. It's great for tall play too. With Korea, you can go wide and still have very strong tech.
     
  18. Kriogen

    Kriogen Warlord

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    Civ5 "blocks" fast eraly expansion with happines.

    Because of this, for me, key for going wide is mercantile(happy faces) City States and religion(Pagodas).

    Celts/Maya and Siam/Greese. Good chance to get early religion, gets more from CS. CS are "luck" based though.
     

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