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Can't see crime buildings

Discussion in 'Bugs and Crashes' started by Misantropia, Jan 1, 2019.

  1. Misantropia

    Misantropia Chieftain

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    Hello,

    Just a small issue, I can't seem to find crime buildings (I checked the "special" tab) in my current game (I have around 100-150 crime in some cities)
     
  2. KaTiON_PT

    KaTiON_PT Chieftain

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    Could be you've already built all available ones. In your BUG options do you have the option to hide unconstructible building off?
     
  3. Misantropia

    Misantropia Chieftain

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    I can see pests and diseases , also that option is on.
     
  4. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    I don't think you two are on the same page.

    If you want to see what is Already built in your city, while in the city screen left panel and the Buildings Tab. The Special Tabs will show hidden crime buildings built that give crime
    Otherwise If you want to see the building in your Build que that are directly related to crime go the the right siade of the bottom build que panel click the building button. Then look across the top of the Build que and locate the Handcuff icon. Click it. Now your Build que will only show the buildings that city can build directly affecting Crime. Be sure to Unclick the Handcuff icon when you have finished with your selections.
     
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  5. Misantropia

    Misantropia Chieftain

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    Oh, I know the buildings that control crime, that is no problem, I am saying that the unbuildable buildings, for example, crime:rape, I don't see any in my cities,

    Update,
    I looked at the requirements and I don't think I have enough crime in any city to create one of the buildings (I am in ancient era)
     
  6. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    My wife claimed to have this problem recently and it came down to there are no crimes that apply, even up to 150 crime in the city, until later than the mid-ancient at least. Not the best design decision imo.
     
  7. Misantropia

    Misantropia Chieftain

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    So the problem is that crime is easily manageable until classical era, not that buildings do not build :D
     
  8. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    I wouldn't say it's 'easily manageable' so much as completely ignorable.
     
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  9. Misantropia

    Misantropia Chieftain

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    I used to play a version where my capital was razed by crime, so I overcompensated in this version anyway. Anyway, thank you for your work!

    Untill now the only issue I find is the AI doesn't try to expand their religion outside their borders
     
  10. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    Crime Rape will not show up until you have more than +400 Crime in that city (iirc on the level it enters the game) And None of the Individual Crimes have an actual building. Civilopedia should give the entry levels.

    Really? Do we play a different C2C? Oh yeah we do! lol
     
  11. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    Again we must play a different C2C. Because the only way I got a religion was neighboring empires missionaries coming into my empire and settling a religion in one of my cities during the Ancient era. My Only founded religion was Hellenism and I had to put my Empire, All cities, on Lesser Research for 4 turns to beat out the other AIs. Who were sucking up the Religions like fine wine!.
     
  12. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    I meant only in the context of up to mid Prehistoric before crimes that come into effect at levels under 150 or so start becoming a factor. I really wish that from round 1 there was a crime and a disease that create at least a minor negative effect at crime 1 and above and at disease 1 and above so that the fact that always applies no matter what you do is that positive amounts of crime and/or disease will always present at least a small penalty. If this were the case, the easiest thing for the player to think is, I need to keep both to 0 or less or I'm suffering some ill effect.
    If I'm not mistaken, the will to do this depends greatly on the personality factors on the individual leader. Some leaders care to do this a lot while many don't bother with it.
     
  13. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    I don't think it would be very hard to add some general overall Crime malaise at lower levels. But like DH I do not feel they should start to show up until after Tribalism. These could be named something like Oppressed where a group of strong individuals start to take advantage of the weaker and older ppl in the tribe. There could be several layers to this type of oppression. Same for disease in that it only takes level 75 to get the 1st disease and that can come Long before Tribalism. Sorry but I just do not agree with level "1" Crime and Disease at game start. When in fact you start the game with accruing levels from the get go by pop/turn.

    The 3 (iirc) Crimes that start immediately were given higher levels because of their magnitude. And as such if a player willfully ignores their Crime levels, then it can make a huge impact if allowed to manifest. We already start the game with individual Crime/turn at what I consider a High rate. Then we have Traits, buildings, and even Civics and more importantly Handicap levels, that pile on to it . The "grace" period of getting thru the Preh era till Tribalism without having to cope with low Crime levels is there on purpose. It is not a bad design, with that I will stand pat with DH on.

    But I have to add this because it's true, the longer the GS the more it Seems that Crime is "Ignorable". When on the longest GS it can be 1000 turns before you reach Tribalism then yes it certainly gives that impression. But it's a false sense of security that then bites the user of these Long GS. It is also another reason for my wanting Long GS to be 3,000 turns and Epic 4,000. After that the rest can stay at their current settings. Having a set of Faster (what a misnomer!) GS available to newcomers But more importantly to those that Want them is important to the mods playability and durability in the long run. Do not discount the fact that there are many C2C players that do not want to play games that take longer than 4,000 turns. And if coming from Vanilla BtS to C2C 4,000 turns is ~2 1/3 times longer than BtS Marathon, the longest GS available to BtS vanilla.
     
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  14. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    Why should it not be at least a minor issue from the very beginning? It's not like bad behavior is limited to things that took place after we started separating into additional communities. Crimes are not crimes because we identify them to be crimes. They are crimes because they are behaviors that disrupt the cohesiveness of the community.

    Agreed that would pretty much be the most basic form of a crime, bullying as it were. The kind of stuff we first encounter as kids.

    So why shouldn't humanity be beset by problems to overcome from the very beginning? What's the point of a numeric system where 0 isn't 0 but 74 is? (Zero meaning no effective crime or disease finally)

    So what's the purpose? To make it so the player can completely ignore any efforts to control crime or disease until later? Why do we want this exactly?
     
  15. tmv

    tmv Chieftain

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    I know of quite a few people (and even some "philosophers") who would really disagree here. The fact that laws are given by an institution (usually a parliament) can be understood that a certain will is formulated, and if that will is violated, society calls it a crime. Of course, this understanding would horrify e.g. the ancient Greeks, who used the term "law" in a completely different manner (more like you seem to use it).

    I thought 0 was the equilibrium point - that is the "point" of 0 here. Why do the first crimes have to start at the equilibrium? If you call 0 the point where crimes start, you should reconsider if it's the best place for equilibrium.

    You do that and you will pay once crimes start to appear. Since crime is a dynamic property, it takes a while to get it down again.
     
  16. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    From a philosophical perspective, a crime, as in something managed by a legal 'system' would perhaps only be a crime because it is declared as one. BUT, beyond that, what is the underlying basis upon which we declare anything a crime? Why bother? Is it just because we really hate each other and want an excuse to cause others to suffer through punishments enacted against them because they overstepped a boundary we defined? Or is it because the boundary was defined for a rational reason? What reason would that be? Could it be that 'criminal' activity was defined as such because it caused damage to society or the individuals within it?

    I'm not saying that all laws are well justified. But we tend to accept them in general because the point is to use the definition of a law as a tool to improve the cohesion of our society.

    If someone goes around killing people and we don't call it a crime, it doesn't make their actions less damaging to society. So whether society calls it a crime or not doesn't mean it is any less one if not recognized to be one. Particularly in a game effect sense - if unhappiness is caused because there are killers going around killing people, then whether it's defined as against a law or not, the effect of that unhappiness will be there. In fact, one should thus argue that if it was not defined as a crime, the problem would become rapidly ever more prevalent because nobody is trying to do anything to stop it.

    Crime, therefore, in the game sense, represents the behavior taking place, not the will of the legal system to declare the behavior wrong and trying to do something about it.

    Equalibrium of what? If 0 doesn't mean the point at which you can feel safe from negative effects and instead means 'the point at which we are at 'normalcy'', (if that's what you mean by equalibrium) then we should be deep into crimes taking place at -1000, since crime is the state of normal, not abnormal.

    I can usually get it down from 1k to less than 0 in about 3-4 rounds of trying to directly address it if needbe. It's not usually that hard to bring under control.
     
  17. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    I don't think this is an accurate statement. At no time have I ever gotten 1000 Crime down to 0 Crime in 3-4 turns, never ever. 1000 Crime reduction to 0 would take multiples of this. Many multiples in fact.

    Sorry T-brd but I have to call BS on this assertion of yours.
    It is an issue from the beginning. It's just not triggering the 1st Individual Crime because it's entry level is 75. But Crime is still being accounted for. Why are you being blind to this?
     
  18. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    Really? Whisperr showed me a recent screenshot with no crimes in her city and the city was at 150+ crime. I'm thinking it was at least mid-prehistoric. She thought crime was broken somehow.

    Depends on a lot of factors of course. Maybe 3-4 turns is a lot faster than it really is but the point being once you start really focusing on trying to improve a property, it doesn't take all that long to do it usually.
     
  19. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    The Individual Crime that is exposed at 75 will not show at mid Preh Era. The tech it is attached too comes later. This too is another factor. Actually Graffiti comes in at level 50 and littering at level 75 but the techs that reveal these 2 Crimes are not in the Mid Preh era at all. Pickpocket and epiracy come in at 125 but are not attached to Preh era techs.

    The Preh era only exposes a set of Individual Crimes, then Ancient adds another set to the whole and every era afterwards does the same. You don't get the whole set of 80+ Individual Crimes exposed at the 1st tech in Preh era. It has never been that way. And Hydro devised it this way too. I just refined it but kept the basic structure he set up as was his expressed wishes and one that you agreed to keep.
     
  20. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    Sure, I understand that but this is why crime appears broken until later in the game. Until after prehistoric you don't see any show up no matter how much you ignore it. I got her report as she was seriously thinking there was a bug and we just had a similar comment which is why I've replied with the comments I've made. It comes across as erroneous when we don't have any crime auto-buildings but have positive crime. Same said for disease.
     

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