Capital of Europe

Capital of future enlarged EU

  • London

    Votes: 46 17.6%
  • Madrid

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Paris

    Votes: 28 10.7%
  • Amsterdam (lets face it, its not always going to be Brussells)

    Votes: 31 11.9%
  • Berlin

    Votes: 62 23.8%
  • Prague

    Votes: 22 8.4%
  • Athens

    Votes: 6 2.3%
  • Istanbul

    Votes: 14 5.4%
  • Rome

    Votes: 33 12.6%
  • Moscow

    Votes: 19 7.3%

  • Total voters
    261
Stairs? We have the technology to be more sophisticated than that. We can use flycars, jetpacks and orca bombers.

It would still be a problem with cats. Now, they shouldn't only be afraid of cars.

"Watch it! The jetting man is coming! ARRRRRGH!"
 
It would still be a problem with cats. Now, they shouldn't only be afraid of cars.

"Watch it! The jetting man is coming! ARRRRRGH!"

You remember how The Scientists managed to grow a human ear on a mouse a while back? How cool wouldn't it be to grow monkey legs and eagle wings on cats? Then they could swing around in the lianas we'd have dingling from the hanging gardens on our ships. And when they felt like it they could take a fly.
 
Again, in both cases, the government did everything to destroy terrorists and save as much hostages as possible. It is not only a matter of humanity, but also their reputation. I'm talking about reputation only to proof they indeed have done their best.



I didn't get your sentence about passport, but doesn't matter.
I think so because I live in this country for almost 30 years, and sometimes talk with people. What do you want to convince me? That we don't have freedom? We have it. That human life have no cost for our rulers? I don't see such facts. You just repeat what you have read from articles, and didn't even mention real problems for which our government can be really criticized.

I think the problem lies in the fact that you do not have any other reality than your present one to compare to.

Even if there is a whole TV channel not controlled by the government, it is not enough to call it freedom. All media should be out of the governments imediate controle.

Maybe you should live abroad for a while to get some perspectives.
 
Out of a number of things done wrong, here is an example:
"Witnesses and journalists saw two T-72 tanks advance on the school that afternoon, at least one of which fired its main gun several times; the tank unit commander testified the tank fired "one blank shot and six antipersonnel-high explosive shells" on orders from the FSB.[38] The Russian government later defended the use of tanks and other heavy weaponry, arguing that it was used after surviving hostages escaped from the school. However, this contradicts the eyewitness accounts (including Associated Press reporters, photographers and videographers), as many hostages were seriously wounded and could not possibly escape by themselves, and others were kept by the militants as human shields, particularly in the area of the school cafeteria."
Not knowing the facts I cant confirom or deny this, but knowing how chaotic things can be in my country this probably has some grain. On the other hand, one thing I've always wondered about 9/11 is why they didn't organise large scale evacuations of people by helicopters?
Yes, I agree human life is a lot cheaper over there just like it is in Asia, Africa or Latin America. Glad someone has it better.

Here is an other gem:

"No fire-fighting equipment was in position and, despite the previous experiences of the 2002 Moscow theater hostage crisis, there were few ambulances ready. There was not one sapper among the Russian special forces, despite the building being heavily mined."

Now that is what I call concerne for the hostages!
You can bet that that would have been provided in the EU.
Knowing the size of that town, I am surprised there were as many ambulances as there were. From what I remember seeing in the news, there's been a lot, but probably still not enough. You would not expect to have 100's of ambulances in a town of 35,000? I am sure they were simply not avaliable and knowing logistical issues I am sure at least some were brought from nearby areas. I'm also glad EU has more ambulances per person, that roads are shorter and peoplea re generally better off than in Russia. If I were to use it as a metaphor, I could say that healing an arm wound using super-duper cream is not more honorable than healing the same arm (but not as well) using almost nothing. I'm glad someone has that cream, but lack of cream is not a crime.

Lastly, I simply cant see how you can fight with insurgents and have firefighters fight fire at the same time. Maybe it is possible in EU or in american heroic action movies, but I doubt it is possible IRL.

In general, yes, I realise there were lot of logostical problems, but having read accounts of some special forces officers on how they were gathered and what kind of resources they had I think they did okay. I am sure EU would have handeled in better, but until something similar happens in EU (and I pray that it won't) I will hold with my judgement.

Lastly, I see what problems you are referrig to and I must say I was wrong in my assumptions.
 
But Berlin is the perfect capital. It is placed the best place, is a modern city with modern architecture, extremely powerful economy... Who cares about 'Germany' being the most powerful nation in the EU, when in the future, the EU itself will be considered a nation? (Hopefully, that is)
Plenty of people care about Germany being too powerful within the EU. In fact, Germany gets more suspicion about that than either the UK or France do. Eastern Europe, in particular, still regards Germany with some degree of suspicion, so if you want them to effectively integrate into the EU you can't be seen to favour Germany to heavily.
The fact is, you can't think of this as a traditional capital. You're not creating a seat of imperial power, you're establishing a place were the representatives of separate member states can meet for various purposes. You want to resist choosing a particular powerful or wealthy city and the centralisation that this would entail. For this, you're far better off with a smaller city in a small, neutral country. For preference, you'd have several such cities, dividing the major roles of government between separate locations, so as to further decrease the idea of one country wielding too much power within the EU and resisting the possibility of
And that is, in fact, what we have right now. Strasbourg's an exception, of course, so maybe we could do with shifting Europe's legislative capital elsewhere, plus there has been a tendency to centralise the system around Brussels, but shifting the capital to Berlin is certainly not a solution to either of those problems.
 
I voted for Berlin
Germany is the hearth of europe, the centre of european succes
Berlin is the future!!!
 
Have you ever been to Bonn ?
The city is hardly worth to talk abut, it would not be much of Capital, it's not in the same league as Berlin or other European capitals.
And of course smaller EU states would be anxious about the Capital of the EU in one of the largest and most influencial states.

Yes, but Bonn was already one capital of Europe during the cold war.
It was an ideia.
But like I said before, for my: Berlin or Vienna. (NEVER MADRID)...
 
Berlin. It's in one of the richest and most populous countries in the EU, so why not? Vienna would be nice, too bad it's not on the poll.
 
I think the problem lies in the fact that you do not have any other reality than your present one to compare to.

Even if there is a whole TV channel not controlled by the government, it is not enough to call it freedom. All media should be out of the governments imediate controle.

Maybe you should live abroad for a while to get some perspectives.

Ok, may be. I wish you to be free from traditional prejudice of Eastern Europeans to us, and rely in your estimations more on facts than on journalist's interpretations.

Not knowing the facts I cant confirom or deny this, but knowing how chaotic things can be in my country this probably has some grain. On the other hand, one thing I've always wondered about 9/11 is why they didn't organise large scale evacuations of people by helicopters?
Yes, I agree human life is a lot cheaper over there just like it is in Asia, Africa or Latin America. Glad someone has it better.


Knowing the size of that town, I am surprised there were as many ambulances as there were. From what I remember seeing in the news, there's been a lot, but probably still not enough. You would not expect to have 100's of ambulances in a town of 35,000? I am sure they were simply not avaliable and knowing logistical issues I am sure at least some were brought from nearby areas. I'm also glad EU has more ambulances per person, that roads are shorter and peoplea re generally better off than in Russia. If I were to use it as a metaphor, I could say that healing an arm wound using super-duper cream is not more honorable than healing the same arm (but not as well) using almost nothing. I'm glad someone has that cream, but lack of cream is not a crime.

Lastly, I simply cant see how you can fight with insurgents and have firefighters fight fire at the same time. Maybe it is possible in EU or in american heroic action movies, but I doubt it is possible IRL.

In general, yes, I realise there were lot of logostical problems, but having read accounts of some special forces officers on how they were gathered and what kind of resources they had I think they did okay. I am sure EU would have handeled in better, but until something similar happens in EU (and I pray that it won't) I will hold with my judgement.

Lastly, I see what problems you are referrig to and I must say I was wrong in my assumptions.

In general, agree, unfortunately. :(
 
Plenty of people care about Germany being too powerful within the EU. In fact, Germany gets more suspicion about that than either the UK or France do. Eastern Europe, in particular, still regards Germany with some degree of suspicion, so if you want them to effectively integrate into the EU you can't be seen to favour Germany to heavily.
The fact is, you can't think of this as a traditional capital. You're not creating a seat of imperial power, you're establishing a place were the representatives of separate member states can meet for various purposes. You want to resist choosing a particular powerful or wealthy city and the centralisation that this would entail. For this, you're far better off with a smaller city in a small, neutral country. For preference, you'd have several such cities, dividing the major roles of government between separate locations, so as to further decrease the idea of one country wielding too much power within the EU and resisting the possibility of
And that is, in fact, what we have right now. Strasbourg's an exception, of course, so maybe we could do with shifting Europe's legislative capital elsewhere, plus there has been a tendency to centralise the system around Brussels, but shifting the capital to Berlin is certainly not a solution to either of those problems.

You didn't get my point. :) I know people feel that way, but if EU is to remain anything at all (If EU is not to be HREish), we should choose a central capital to rule our nation.
 
The capital must be in the middle of Europe..The middle of Europe is Germany..Germany's capital is Berlin..
To easy to explain my reason to choose Berlin.
 
So you counted Russia.
Why do you count Russia?
Does Russia see himself European or Does Europe see Russia a part of Europe in diplomatic ways?

why do I count Russia? Why would I not count Russia? Russia is a european country. Europe ends at the Urals. How could I not count a country that constitues almost 50% of Europes landmass? and yes Russians see themselves as Russian and europeans see Russians as european. You are msitaking the EU for Europe. the EU is not Europe.
 
Berlin would make a great capital, but it will never happen for a couple reasons..

1. The French
2. The British
3. Memories of WW2

Vienna is even more central than Berlin, so I'll vote for that instead (and I think I already did).. Actually, they should just build the capital buildings right in between Vienna and Bratislava, and slowly connect the cities.
 
Given that the EU is no longer France and Germany, the capitals should no longer be lying in the boderlands of those two countries. And it certainly shouldn't be in one of the big countries (UK, France, Germany, Russia or Turkey), or the peripheral ones (see last bracket).

Prague and Vienna are the best candidates IMHO. Wien is a culturally and historically German city however, which rules it out. Prague, although not as important as Wien, is as central, and moreover has a good Slavic Germanic mix which sums up Europe better than any other place.
 
If Trieste had some Germanic populatuion that would be a good one.... it dosent by any chance, does it?
 
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