Caravans

[Pounder]

Bring back caravans, so that food, luxuries, and some production can be moved to another city.

Cities that are not producing enough food could receive shipments from other towns. You could even trade food with other Civ's adding diplomancy factors back into the game.

Luxuries could be traded with other Civ's before roads were completed.

Production from other towns could be sent to help rush wonders and other improvements (in Civ2 several towns could be used to build a wonder with the aid of caravans).

I know that roads cover some of this once they are built, but it doesn't cover the distribution of food or the transference of production between cities.

 

[Dell19]

The problem with caravans is that the AI doesn't use them correctly to rush build wonders although it might work since perhaps on commercial civs would be able to build caravans cheaply so this would allow them to rush build wonders whilst military civs could once again use MGLs to rush build wonders.

 

[Pounder]

The problem with caravans is that the AI doesn't use them correctly to rush build wonders although it might work since perhaps on commercial civs would be able to build caravans cheaply so this would allow them to rush build wonders whilst military civs could once again use MGLs to rush build wonders.

I am hoping that they will be using a new engine for Civ 4 with programing that improves the AI.

I agree that if the AI made poor use of features, then that would detract from the game.

I guess I would like more control over how my food is distributed and I would like to be able to trade food with other Civ's. Maybe have the same control over distribution of shields.

 

[Dell19]

Its something that I don't get about armies. Why do they appear in the game yet the AI seems incapable of using them....

 

[Pounder]

Its something that I don't get about armies. Why do they appear in the game yet the AI seems incapable of using them....

That bug was introduced in Conquests, hopefully they will patch it in the final patch.

 

[Dell19]

Ah okay thats good then but it still means that they would have to correctly design the AI to use caravans unlike in Civ2.

 

[Arathorn]

Ugh. More micromanagement to give an advantage while detracting from other aspects of the gameplay. I was SO HAPPY Civ3 abstracted trade (in a good way) and to not see caravans. Bring them back??? Why?

I will grant you the trade model needs some work...and that food sharing between cities would be nice (but probably broken -- this would need VERY careful attention). Actual trade routes for pirates and robbers and such might be very cool, but why go back to something as boring and painful as caravans?

Arathorn

 

[Pounder]

Ugh. More micromanagement to give an advantage while detracting from other aspects of the gameplay. I was SO HAPPY Civ3 abstracted trade (in a good way) and to not see caravans. Bring them back??? Why?

I will grant you the trade model needs some work...and that food sharing between cities would be nice (but probably broken -- this would need VERY careful attention). Actual trade routes for pirates and robbers and such might be very cool, but why go back to something as boring and painful as caravans?

Arathorn

If they could add the ability to distrbute food throughout the country, that would be an improvement. I find it silly that a town with a surplus can't move some food over to a town that is starving. What kind of government would let that happen within it's borders (OK maybe some despots).

 

[Dell19]

If they could add the ability to distrbute food throughout the country, that would be an improvement. I find it silly that a town with a surplus can't move some food over to a town that is starving. What kind of government would let that happen within it's borders (OK maybe some despots).

Thats not what it will be used for. It will be used for making large central cities that can rush build wonders and be unusually large.

 

[Pounder]

Thats not what it will be used for. It will be used for making large central cities that can rush build wonders and be unusually large.

That is not to different to how things for real. Cities do not usually grow there own food, they bring it in from the smaller rural towns.

I would say that having a few large cities surrounded by smaller food producing towns is a better representation.

 

[Dell19]

However it means that caravans aren't really being used to distribute food fairly. They are just being used to increase the size of a few select cities and in the end caravans would be mainly used for wonder rushing rather than actually balancing food production...

 

[hr_oskar]

That is not to different to how things for real. Cities do not usually grow there own food, they bring it in from the smaller rural towns.

I would say that having a few large cities surrounded by smaller food producing towns is a better representation.

I've always considered Civ to be modelling exactly what you describe, in an abstract way - the worked tiles are rural areas, and you may consider them to feature "rural towns", if that seems more realistic. The actual cities in the game are the biggest cities of their regions while their worked tiles are smaller contributing communities.

I'm totally opposed to bringing Caravans back as a unit with its Civ2 functions. It was a tedious and boring way to do broken things, primarily wonder-rushing. Distributing food with them was fortunately not worthwhile in game effects, because of their high shield cost - I say fortunately because that would have been horribly tedious MM and nothing else.

Actually I would love for Civ4 to feature an interesting trade- and resource distribution system. I think that's what you're really asking for, not Caravans per se. The system would have to be smooth and not too conductive to micromanagement (a tall order). It would be most interesting if the distribution were limited by technology so that improved transportation (e.g. railroad) would ultimately lead to major industrial cities manufacturing goods out of resources from colonies all over the world - as has been the case in history (since the industrial revolution in England).

But I would only like that game, as I say, if the designers could come up with a smooth system and not just another MM nightmare. This would be an entirely new focus for Civ, which has traditionally abstracted resource distribution completely and kept production entirely local.

 

[Pounder]

Actually I would love for Civ4 to feature an interesting trade- and resource distribution system. I think that's what you're really asking for, not Caravans per se. The system would have to be smooth and not too conductive to micromanagement (a tall order). It would be most interesting if the distribution were limited by technology so that improved transportation (e.g. railroad) would ultimately lead to major industrial cities manufacturing goods out of resources from colonies all over the world - as has been the case in history (since the industrial revolution in England).

But I would only like that game, as I say, if the designers could come up with a smooth system and not just another MM nightmare. This would be an entirely new focus for Civ, which has traditionally abstracted resource distribution completely and kept production entirely local.

I would be happy that.

 

[DogmaDog]

I dislike the idea of caravans as a unit, too. The problem in CIV 2 was you could never really afford to build them to trade until your civilization was pretty advanced and you didn't need military or improvements.

I'd say expand the utility of colonies, so they can link to resources OR work like the supply crawlers from SMAC, bringing shields/food/commerce from a square outside the city radius.

Also, allow cities to export surplus food, but impose "spoilage" analogous to "corruption" and "waste", which would apply to all food exported to other cities.

Exporting would allow you to check the growth of some cities without building workers or settlers as emmigrants.

Of course, you then beg the question about shields...shouldn't you be able to export/import them, too?

DD