1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Caravel is a spy! It must be fixed.

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Colossian, Feb 7, 2007.

  1. Colossian

    Colossian Prince

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    576
    On the contrary, Scout can't enter the border without Open-Border. Why can Caravel do? Caravel is a snooper.
     
  2. BeefontheBone

    BeefontheBone Windbag of the sea

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2005
    Messages:
    2,018
    Yeah. And there's nothing stopping you from using them that way, too...
     
  3. Sisiutil

    Sisiutil All Leader Challenger

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2006
    Messages:
    6,899
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    I like the Caravels the way they are. If they couldn't enter foreign territory without OB, their value would be substantially reduced. The Caravel's primary purpose is to explore the world, after all. They're balanced by the fact that they can't pillage.

    I frankly think it makes sense that a small, lightly-armed ship can slip across borders without issue; a heavier-armed Galleon or Frigate, though, cannot enter foreign territory without an Open Borders treaty lest it be considered an act of war.
     
  4. drkodos

    drkodos Emperor

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2005
    Messages:
    1,861
    Location:
    Renting-a-tent
    Bring back the Privateers!

    Especially the Dutch ones.
     
  5. Lockesdonkey

    Lockesdonkey Liberal Jihadist

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2004
    Messages:
    2,403
    Location:
    Why do you care?
    If Caravels couldn't enter foreign territory, what would be the point? You need them to explore the world. If you're not, then stop being a boring stupid isolationist fool and get out of your shell! Not everything is war.
     
  6. Galileo44

    Galileo44 Great Scientist

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2006
    Messages:
    535
    Location:
    Connecticut
    Yes, they have a very good use in carrying Great Merchants to other continents and dropping them off in the land of civs who hate you. The GM can then stay in those borders to perform a trade mission.
     
  7. Powerslave

    Powerslave Prince

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2004
    Messages:
    388
    Location:
    USA
    But why can't explorers enter foreign lands without open borders? Isn't their main purpose to explore, as well? And, unlike caravels, explorers can't even attack.
     
  8. Mutineer

    Mutineer Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2006
    Messages:
    3,715
    well, it is a good argument to make explorers more usefull. May be we should discuss to permit exporers (not scouts) to enter borders with out open borders agreements and been poor man spyes.
     
  9. feldmarshall

    feldmarshall Dictator

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2007
    Messages:
    387
    i prefer caravel can explore rival territories in early era, but not in modern era. because in modern area air patrols can discover the scouting caravel
     
  10. KMadCandy

    KMadCandy giggling permanoob

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2005
    Messages:
    3,993
    Location:
    Peepsville
    i love it exactly the way it is. i can spy/get information on the bad guys using caravels. they can do that to me too, BUT they can't put settlers on caravels to come put a city in what is of course my land. i like how caravels work.
     
  11. jray

    jray King

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2006
    Messages:
    925
    Location:
    North Carolina (USA)
    I also like to use Caravels to prevent the enemy from working unguarded seafood tiles.

    But so does Ragnar. :mad:
     
  12. thenooblet22

    thenooblet22 King

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2005
    Messages:
    850
    Location:
    Texas, USA
    Maybe the Caravels could be restricted by not being able to see units (i.e. land units guarding cities). If you want to take it a step further, maybe the city itself.
     
  13. Mehmed100

    Mehmed100 Hunger is Distasteful

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2006
    Messages:
    319
    Location:
    I'm waking the others...
    I say keep the caraval as they are now. If you need an open borders agreement to enter someone's borders with it, I wouldn't use them. It doesn't matter if you can see the units. You can't load a military onto them. Besides, how would you transport great people before Astronomy?
     
  14. Torvoni

    Torvoni Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2007
    Messages:
    52
    Location:
    Florida
    The Caravel is fine.

    It is working as intended.
     
  15. drkodos

    drkodos Emperor

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2005
    Messages:
    1,861
    Location:
    Renting-a-tent

    Says you, but I want mine to have laser beams mounted on the topsail.
     
  16. Colossian

    Colossian Prince

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    576
    Caravel can enter the border, Scout and Explorer can not? Is it fine? Define "Fine".
     
  17. DaviddesJ

    DaviddesJ Deity

    Joined:
    May 5, 2003
    Messages:
    4,366
    Location:
    Burlingame CA
    I agree with the idea to let Explorers (not Scouts) enter the territory of neutral players.
     
  18. Sisiutil

    Sisiutil All Leader Challenger

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2006
    Messages:
    6,899
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    History is full of examples of exploratory vessels traveling unmolested at sea, but finding themselves under attack once they put in to shore. Basically, if you're in a boat, you're just "passing through". But if you land and drink from our sacred spring, well hey, you're fair game, boyo. Next thing you'll be trying to carry off our women, and you can eat poison dart-borne death before you think that's gonna happen.

    Seriously, though, history shows there's a big difference between traveling along a shoreline versus setting foot on a foreign nation's soil without permission. People have seemed to usually regard waterways as shared byways, but we get much more territorial, in comparison, about land.
     
  19. Willem

    Willem Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2002
    Messages:
    7,313
    Location:
    Canada
    Because only being able to see another civ's ocean cities gives you limited information on the other civ's overall troop strength and defences. If the Explorer was able to see all your enemies inland cities as well, it would be way too easy to select a point of attack. As it stands, there's an element of doubt as to whether that civ will have enough troops in a nearby city to counter attack if you land some forces to gain a beachhead.
     
  20. Galileo44

    Galileo44 Great Scientist

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2006
    Messages:
    535
    Location:
    Connecticut
    I think Sisiutil hit the nail on the head in terms of historical perspective. And in terms of game balance, it works quite well, allowing you to only see your opponents coastal cities.
     

Share This Page